Jayjay

Those are good questions. :b: However, I suspect that the minister will have stock answers to them as well. The key is not to let him muddle the real issue and pretend that he can "win"just by way of empty assertions... it's his job to prove to you that any of that stuff makes sense. If there's something you find unacceptable, then you've won. Don't get suckered in by that "argument from outrage" crap that christians often try to pull when they can't explain things.

Writer@Large

I think Digital Chicken has offered the best criticism here. Why ask all those questions about a deity you no longer believe in?

All those questions come with one backloaded assumption: that God exists. You even begin by establishing who/what God is. By doing so, you're giving the youth pastor a huge advantage. He's no longer debating with a nonbeliever about the existence of a deity. He's answering the concerns and confusions of a strayed member of the flock. He doesn't have to provide evidence that his beliefs trump yours; all he has to do is apologize for the way his God has handled things.

Ask yourself this: will his answers really matter? If he gives you a perfectly Godly explanation for why God created the world, for why God allows bad things to happen, for why God lets Satan exist ... will you re-convert? Are you a lapsed Christian seeking to renew your faith in this conversation? If not, then asking those questions is pointless, for both you and him. If you are hoping your hard-hitting questions will shake his faith: they won't. He's been trained for this, and he knows all the apologetic answers. And if you're hoping this will shake your girlfriend's faith, remember that she'll be sitting there, listening to her pastor talk his way around your points the way all good apologists do.

Now, maybe that *is* what you want, and if so, that's fine. But if you're seerious about your newly found non-theism, then this conversation would be like having a deep, personal discussion of the motivations of Hamlet. I've had those conversations in grad level English courses. Trust me; they're pretty useless. Don;t let him get away with simple task of defending his God (who, remember, Works In Mysterious WaysTM). Ask him what DChicken has suggested above, or ask him why you're no more miserable now than you were as a believer, or why you haven't killed babies yet without God's code. Commit to your non-theism.

At least, that's my take ...

--W@L

HelenM

I'm not sure whether anyone else has said this yet...the minister will probably respond to your reasoning by saying "But we humans have limited understanding; we can't fully understand God's plans and purposes." The bottom line on this is that Christians give God the benefit of the doubt when they can't easily explain why something happened. Non-Christians don't.

Helen

Evil Milkman

Everyone made very good points here, I'll be making some changes and try a slightly different approach. I will respond to the replies when I get home from school today. Take care.

Godless Dave

And the proper rebuttal to that is "If that's the case, where do you get off telling me you know more about God and God's plan than I do? Your human understanding is just as limited as mine."

HelenM

Then...he might say...

"Ah but, I'm not telling you my opinion - I'm telling you what God says in His Word" (at this point he points at/holds up the Bible to be clear that's what he's referring to)

Helen

gravitybow

I second W@L's assessment of what DC wrote. DigitalChicken and I have seen this method work very well.

If this is your first encounter with the youth minister, then discussion revolving around you, your girlfriend, him, and the community at large are more likely to get him to see you as a caring person instead of a troublemaker. A positive, solution-seeking approach will establish better rapport. You'll be enlisting his skills (if he has any) as a mediator instead of forcing him to become Defender of the Faith giving rote answers.

You can still ask your other questions at a later time if you really want to, or you may decide to drop them altogether. But once a friendly dialogue is established, you'll probably ask them differently and he may respond to them more openly.

You also misspelled "misspelled."

Enlighten Me

If you state that you simply do not believe that humankind was created under an "evil spell" (original sin), then any discussion about salvation, etc., becomes irrelevant, doesn't it?

Amos

Sorry Strawberry but we fought the Reformation to prevent it.

Just be glad there are hell-recovery institutions that were able to help you and I wish the best.

Ps. They should have told you that Jesus was counted among the wicked and that a 'righteous' stream of consciousness is only needed to make sinners known.

Bumble Bee Tuna

Forget all those questions.

Ask the one unanswerable question:

"Why should I believe that God exists? What evidence do you have to show me?"

That's the only real one you have to ask. Then tell him you don't agree with whatever evidence he does try to throw at you. If he tries to use the Bible, show him some contradictions and say you can't trust that pile of shit. There's really not much to discuss. After that's settled, move on to DC-style discussion. Ask about issues that might matter to you and your girlfriend. You've obviously made your decision, it's really a waste to ask questions that get ridiculous textbook apologetic responses.

-B