admice

Was reading some from the library here on Naturalism and wondered if there already is a document, or if some of you here can explain, the logical connection?

thanks
Admice

bd-from-kg

admice:

1. I suspect that you’re talking about determinism, not naturalism. They’re not at all the same thing. Determinism could be true and naturalism false. (In fact, a number of people have believed this; Calvin for example.) And naturalism could be true but determinism false. (In fact, this is exactly what the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics says.)

2. There isn’t really any connection between determinism and free will, but this is far from obvious. The usual reason for supposing that there is an argument that goes something like this:

(i) In order to have free will, it must be the case (at least sometimes) that you could have chosen differently than you did.

(ii) But if determinism is true, it is never the case that you could have chosen differently than you did.

(iii) Therefore is determinism is true, there is no free will.

This argument is fallacious, but the fallacy is not what you’d call transparent. The argument rests on an ambiguity in the use of the term “could”; it isn’t being used in the same sense in (i) and (ii).

I doubt that I’ll have time or inclination to participate actively in this thread; I’ve been down this road (at considerable length) a couple of times recently in this very forum. But good luck.

admice

thanks bd for the reply, but no, not mistaking it for determinism (have read and made some of those arguements). Under nontheism in their library here they describe Naturalism and have some articles discussing free will, and it seemed quite a jump to me, so wanted a clarification on that. Any takers still?

Psycho Economist

If you think there's nothing to consciousness than neurochemistry, then there's no yet-known mechanism to impose your will on those fairly deterministically responding brain cells. Hell, your "will", by all accounts, is nothing more than an electrochemical rut worn into those neurons.

Of course, we'd all like to think that somehow the character of consciousness as an emergent property inherant in neurological complexity will let us have control of our brains again, because the subjective experience of being alive is damn hard to deny.

Dr. Retard

Well, naturalism involves natural laws, which are tied up with determinism, which people take to cancel free will. I think this is just wrong all over, but there it is.