nogods4me

refer to pharaoh by name?
Why wouldn't it, if it is supposed to be an historically accurate text?
Why not say "the pharaoh Ramses" (or whoever) instead of just pharaoh?
It certainly goes to great pains in naming the jewish leaders.
If writing history as opposed to fable, wouldn't you want to be as accurate as possible?

missus_gumby

I'm fairly sure the bible doesn't mention any specific pharaohs. (I could be wrong though.) The words 'pyramid' and 'sphynx' don't get a look-in either. Which is quite odd when considering that the word 'Eygpt' occurs in the KJV a total of 737 times. It's almost as if the people who wrote the bible never visited Eygpt at all.

Martin

beachbum

Just did a google search on the "Blue Letter Bible" Pharaoh appears 225 times but it is always "Pharaoh the kingo of Egypt" or "Pharaoh" or 'the Pharaoh". there is never a specific one named. Interesting question.

Also, neither the names Stan nor Martin are mentioned anyplace in the bable. How interesting. I didn't search for beachbum or missus_gumby but I am sure they must be there.

Talulah

I was reading somewhere that the writers of Exodous thought that 'Pharaoh' was the king's name and not his title. There are Pharaoh's named by name later, especially in the book of Kings and from then on when it is obvious the writers has a firmer grasp of history.

2 Kings 23:29
In his days Pharaoh Necho king of Egypt went to the aid of the king of Assyria, to the River Euphrates; and King Josiah went against him. And Pharaoh Necho killed him at Megiddo when he confronted him.

nogods4me

thanks for the info on the later books, I'll do some checking.
the part about the author(s) of Exodus thinking that Pharaoh was his name seems a copt out to me, cripes the pharaohs put their name on everything, that is how we know about so many of them, and it seems disingenuous at best to suggest that the author wouldn't have known this as well, particulary if Moses was the purported author as some assert. now, if it were ignorant shepherds making up stories, passing down folks legends well then I could believe they might mistake pharaoh for a proper name.

Talulah

Jeremiah 44:30
This is what the Lord says: 'I am going to hand Pharaoh Hophra king of Egypt over to his enemies who seek his life, just as I handed Zedekiah king of Judah over to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the enemy who was seeking his life.' "
(Whole Chapter: Jeremiah 44 In context: Jeremiah 44:29-31)


Jeremiah 46:2
Concerning Egypt: This is the message against the army of Pharaoh Neco king of Egypt, which was defeated at Carchemish on the Euphrates River by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon in the fourth year of Jehoiakim son of Josiah king of Judah:

diana

What an interesting observation.

d

Marduk

"The words 'pyramid' and 'sphynx' don't get a look-in either. Which is quite odd when considering that the word 'Eygpt' occurs in the KJV a total of 737 times. It's almost as if the people who wrote the bible never visited Eygpt at all."

OK, let's cut the Bible a little slack here. The Pyramid complex was built in 2500 BCE, the Old Kingdom of the Pyramid builders collapsed around 2000 BCE, still at least 500 years before the Exodus was to have taken place, several hundred miles north of Giza. Giza was a Necropolis (city of the dead) even Egyptians didn't live there, with the exception of the Tomb Guards. Besides by the time of the alleged Exodus, Kings were no longer burried at Giza but in "The Valley of the Kings" where Ramses II was planted. By then Giza was already an ancient ruin.
The Bible refers to the Exodus Pharoh as "the Pharoh who knew not Joseph" And YES it is odd that Moses doesn't know his name, especially since they were suppose to have grown up together and lived as brothers!!!!

[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]</p>

Grumpy

Incidentally, I recall from my history class that Pharaoh is not so much a title as it is a reference to the monarchy itself, a synecdoche. Like referring to the President as "the White House" or referring to the Queen as "the Crown" or "the Throne."

It wasn't Pharaoh Ramses; it was the Ramses Administration. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Marduk

"It wasn't Pharaoh Ramses; it was the Ramses Administration"

Pharaohs were more like Popes, When they became Pharaoh they took a 'Horus' name like RAmses, or THOTHmosis, or SETi, it had one of the gods names inbeded. Ramses was not the name his mom gave him and he wouldn't have been called that till he was Pharaoh. Horus was Ra in the daytime, the living Pharaoh, when he died he became Osiris and the new Pharaoh became Horus.