Chad

why be impressed? I mean if God did not achieve perfection, but was "born" with it and cannot be anything but perfect, why should anyone care if they cannot meet a standard that God has set for us when he did nothing to meet this standard himself? Basically, if God cannot fail, why be impressed by his perfection?

Thieving Magpie

The Christian God does not ask people to be perfect, or to be in awe of him because he is perfect.. however, if he is perfect, then he could be useful, wouldn't you think?

spurly

For me it is sort of like a son wanting to please his father. He will try to do everything he can to please him and earn his approval on the baseball field, at school, and at home simply because he loves his father.

That's where I am with God. I want to live up to that standard because I love God and because I want to please him with everything that is within me.

By the way, in the Christian's theology, God did meet that standard when he entered into his creation as a man and allowed himself to be tempted with everything that I am tempted with. And he withstood it.

Just my thoughts.

Kevin

lpetrich

Except that human fathers are not omnipotent superbeings, meaning that they are physically unable to produce offspring who are exactly to their liking.

Philosoft

Didn't we meet this standard immediately after creation? How is it we were able to self-generate imperfection?
I don't understand this logic. Is this really a challenge for God? What could possibly be tempting to a perfect being?

trientalis

Personally, I've always wondered why a perfect being would curse a fig tree for not bearing figs out of season.

schu

Or throw a fit about the moneychangers.

Or tell people they have to hate their family to be a follower.

Or that he would turn son against father and daughter against mother.

Or to destroy someones pigs just to get rid of a few measly demons.

Or talking ugly to his own earthly mother who he had imprednated against her will as another part of the trinity.

Or pretend to be the prince of peace and at the same time telling people he didn't come to bring peace, but the sword.

Or being one with god, but asking himself why he had abandoned himself while he was on the cross.

Sabine Grant

Hi Schu... those can be explained and always of course via personal interpretation. Let me give you some alternatives to your personal interpretation.

1-moneychangers : if you are refering to Christ's overturning the merchants tables and driving away anything of a mercantilist character from the Temple, I think it is rather commendable that a man would stand against the commercialization of religion. Is it not what most non theists are critical of nowadays... the fact that organized religion exploits people financialy?

2- Christ pertained to warn his followers that their faith would trigger antagonistic responses from even their own family members. Is it not a reality that some christians are ostercized by their own family and friends? or delt with with terms and demeaning characterizations as posted at times in this predominantly secular forum?

3- Not that he himself would turn mother against daughter etc... but that the belief in him would cause those who do not understand that belief to be antagonistic towards those who do. Another reality....

4- I have to assume that you display equal concern for animal rights in a society where we use them for medical experiment...or we even exposed pigs to a nuclear blast to examine the effects of exposure to intense heat. Just to say that expressing indignation over the "biblical pigs"necessitates equal indignation over the treatment of animals in our society. Or are the means we use justified by the end but it does not apply to Christ's? Also to point that only recently in Fl, legislation was passed to end the horrible treatement of pigs parked in individual cages to promote their fat intake by restricting their movement. Makes those pork chops more acceptable to eat....

5- It appears that Mary's devotion to her son was not demeaned by your perception of her role in his life. Now you would have probably been bitter and consider yourself violated, treated badly and "talked to ugly" but in Mary's case we are dealing with a woman who kept focused on what her greater purpose was. So I think trying to place in her psyche thoughts and emotions you would personaly have if you were Mary, may not be what describes her actual psyche as portrayed in The Gospels.

6- It is a fact that christian faith encounters antagonistic responses. If the goal of a christian is to be a peacemaker, Christ has no impact on any individual who is determined to war against christian faith. Again, he warns his followers that their faith will bring upon them antagonistic responses. Yet he promotes a peaceful behavior for any christian and guides them to principles such as humility to deter that antagonism.

7- Some theologians have presented what I consider to be a plausible explaination for Christ's statement on the cross... the transfer of the sins of humanity onto his persona necessitated separation from God. I personaly believe for example that the concept of hell is eternal separation from God's presence. The fact is that Christ retained his humanity until his last breath. That human part of him is the one experiencing separation from God.

Shake

First, evidently not. A perfect being would have been able to create beings that were not subject to temptation, unlike Eve. Which answers the second question: it wasn't self-generated. We were (supposedly) created imperfect, and that imperfection has been allowed to continue throughout time.

You can't understand it. It's not logically sound. It's Xian logic, which apparently doesn't follow the same sorts of rules to which most of us are accustomed. You wouldn't think anything would be challenging for a perfect being would you. That's why I can't believe that there IS one!

spurly

Yes. He was able to do that. However, he chose not to. He wanted his creatures to have something called free will. In order to have free will, they had to have the ability to choose between loving God and not loving him, righteousness and evil.

If they were going to choose, they had to have something to choose between - hence temptation and sin. It is not illogical, it is perfectly logical. Spock would even think so.

Kevin