ju'iblex

if we have to accept our fate, then we never had a choice, if we never had a choice, what kind of divine justice is it to punish the victim?

heh... fate of your own choosing, now thats an oxymoron if i'd ever heard one.

MrDarwin

Here we go again. Ah well, here's one example, from Deuteronomy 21: 18-21:

Oh yes, be very afraid. Because doesn't that contradict one of the commandments, "thou shalt not kill"? Magu55, which of these verses will you obey when the time comes that your son disobeys you?

And for another example, would you care to tell us what Judas did with the money he received for betraying Jesus, and how Judas died?

Old Man

I think you are focusing on a particular nuance to the word "fate" which is not reflective of its general meaning.
From m-w.com

"fate": 1 : the principle or determining cause or will by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do : DESTINY

Not at all. The whole point of the Christian message is that people now have a choice, whereas before Christ, they did not, for "fate" (i.e. whether you had any capability to obey God) was then largely ungovernable, and by birth (depending on whether you wer a Jew or not):

Deu 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;


The bible says God overlooked the days when fate, as in ungovernable fate, ruled, and man had no choice; but now:

]Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.

ju'iblex

from the American Heritage Dictionary:

The supposed force, principle, or power that predetermines events;
The inevitable events predestined by this force.

Websters Unabridged tells us:

1. A fixed decree by which the order of things is prescribed; the immutable law of the universe; inevitable necessity; the force by which all existence is determined and conditioned.

2. Appointed lot; allotted life; arranged or predetermined event; destiny; especially, the final lot; doom; ruin; death.

WordNet:

1: an event (or course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future [syn: destiny] 2: the ultimate agency that predetermines the course of events (often personified as a woman); "we are helpless in the face of Destiny"

fate, from the Latin fatus meaning prophecy or doom <interesting that, slightly ironic in the context.>

The strange thing is, all definitions rely on an external unavoidable cause, if something is predetermined and inevitable it most certainly cannot be choice.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
Circumcision served the same purpose as water Baptism does today - its a sign of washing ( cutting) away ones sins.

Why couldn't god just order the Jews to baptise babies, then? Why forcibly mutilate their genitalia? Unless he really likes the sight of blood and pain, I suppose.

Whats wrong with people like me?

Self-righteousness and a lack of a sense of humor, for one thing. No, don't claim to be evil - you're not that interesting.

Evil isn't necessary to produce good - God is the creator of good - no good comes but from him.

Genocide, child murder and rape authorization also come from him, according to the so-called Good Book.

Tormenting you is the last thing God wants - if he really enjoyed tormenting humans - you'd already be in Hell and he would have never sacrifice his son to save you from that torment.

Unless he enjoyed tormenting his son. Ever thought about that?

Magus55

Nope never thought about that since God wasn't the one who tortured, abused, and executed Jesus - your dear sweet "not inherently evil" human brethren did.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
Nope never thought about that since God wasn't the one who tortured, abused, and executed Jesus

If it wasn't for God's need for sacrifice - the bloodier the better - would Jesus have died?

- your dear sweet "not inherently evil" human brethren did.

There's that Christian love-masquerading-as-insults again. Show us some more of it, Magus; it's charming to see how True Christians behave.

spurly

As far as I know, this question is never answered in the Scriptures. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Kevin

spurly

According to Christ, we will neither marry or be given in marriage in heaven. Thus the question about a spouse in heaven is irrelevant. I don't know what language we will speak in heaven, but my guess is that it does not matter.

spurly

According to Scriptures, we will receive a new body in heaven - one fit for eternity. So the old leg won't need to be there.

Kevin