Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Shake · 02-11-2003, 10:11 AM

This just in ... according to this article references to god or religion have been omitted from the first draft of the EU constitution. I'd say this is a victory!

Starboy · 02-11-2003, 11:08 AM

I would find it ironic if Europe became a bastion of religious freedom. After all, that is the place supposedly the early American religious settlers left in search of religious freedom. In the American Christian's zealous pursuit of religion they are destroying the very freedom they originally sought.

Starboy

Sabine Grant · 02-11-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shake
This just in ... according to this article references to god or religion have been omitted from the first draft of the EU constitution. I'd say this is a victory!

The European Union deals not with one single nation under one government but several. It makes sense to me that they would show respect for multi culturalism represented throughout Europe. I would not call it a " victory" of one ideology over the other but the result of a conciliatory document which needs to aknowledge the various cultures of Europe, including languages, history, religion, economies etc...
I do not think that the EU Constitution is comparable to the US constitution.

Daggah · 02-11-2003, 04:36 PM

Sabine, Sabine, Sabine...why don't you point out who (and where) anyone said that this was a victory "of one idealogy over another."

So cut the straw men, ok?

Starboy · 02-11-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabine Grant
The European Union deals not with one single nation under one government but several. It makes sense to me that they would show respect for multi culturalism represented throughout Europe. I would not call it a " victory" of one ideology over the other but the result of a conciliatory document which needs to aknowledge the various cultures of Europe, including languages, history, religion, economies etc...
I do not think that the EU Constitution is comparable to the US constitution.

Perhaps not on other points, but with respect to the idea of many cultures, many beliefs, many races melded into one country, that is a very American idea, that is what was implied by Lady Liberty. It is a lesson that is lost on a great many present day American Christians because of their thoughtless blind faith.

Starboy

ashibaka · 02-12-2003, 04:48 PM

Apparently, the only news the BBC wishes to report about this draft is that it doesn't mention God...

http://european-convention.eu.int/do...00528.en03.pdf

There's the draft, I went and found it for you

I don't see where there's room for an article about religion there. It's very easy to read and apparently supports a common foreign policy.

I guess the BBC was expecting...

Quote:

Article 1: Establishment of the Union

1. The Union is established under God for the children.

LordSnooty · 02-12-2003, 08:09 PM

This whole fuss over Christian sentiment in the EU constitution really got to me. It brought home to me just how angry I'd be if I lived in the states, and had state-sponsored Christianity forced onto me all of the time.

I'm glad that those drafting the constitution chose to ignore the pope.

And Sabine - it's a victory of acceptance and tolerance over Christian bullying - and that's all. It's hardly an atheist victory.

Paul

Shake · 02-13-2003, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordSnooty
This whole fuss over Christian sentiment in the EU constitution really got to me. It brought home to me just how angry I'd be if I lived in the states, and had state-sponsored Christianity forced onto me all of the time.

I'm glad that those drafting the constitution chose to ignore the pope.

And Sabine - it's a victory of acceptance and tolerance over Christian bullying - and that's all. It's hardly an atheist victory.

Paul

Still an important victory, IMHO.

02-11-2003, 10:11 AM	#1
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	No God in EU constitution! This just in ... according to this article references to god or religion have been omitted from the first draft of the EU constitution. I'd say this is a victory!

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02-11-2003, 11:08 AM	#2
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	I would find it ironic if Europe became a bastion of religious freedom. After all, that is the place supposedly the early American religious settlers left in search of religious freedom. In the American Christian's zealous pursuit of religion they are destroying the very freedom they originally sought. Starboy

02-11-2003, 04:36 PM	#4
Daggah Banned Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Deployed to Kosovo Posts: 4,314	Sabine, Sabine, Sabine...why don't you point out who (and where) anyone said that this was a victory "of one idealogy over another." So cut the straw men, ok?

02-12-2003, 08:09 PM	#7
LordSnooty Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England Posts: 211	This whole fuss over Christian sentiment in the EU constitution really got to me. It brought home to me just how angry I'd be if I lived in the states, and had state-sponsored Christianity forced onto me all of the time. I'm glad that those drafting the constitution chose to ignore the pope. And Sabine - it's a victory of acceptance and tolerance over Christian bullying - and that's all. It's hardly an atheist victory. Paul

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