emotional

EstherRose and Magus55 were asked if they had examined the Qur'an, and both said they had and consequently rejected it. At face value, it would seem to prove they were able to apply critical thinking skills. But in practice, the filter they applied to the Qur'an is very different from that which freethinkers apply to the Qur'an, and had they applied that, they would be rejecting the Bible as well.

The freethinking filter for the Qur'an:

Is there evidence for the things described? No.
Is it free of error in scientific matters? No.
Are there internal contradictions? Yes.
Is it a moral guide you would like to follow? No.

Now the same filter applied to the Bible works equally well for rejecting the Bible. Obviously our two born-again Christians haven't applied such a filter. Instead, the filter they applied for the Qur'an is this:

Does it mention Jesus as the Son of God? No.
Is salvation by faith alone or by works? By works.
Does it hold to Original Sin? No.
Is God described as a Trinity? No.

In other words, EstherRose and Magus55 applied a Christian filter to the Qur'an in order to reject it - a filter that guarantees that any religion apart from Christianity will be found false. There is really no critical thinking involved here! So don't let's be fooled...

Darth Dane

Nice, I have said the same thing basicly, some time ago.

Depending on our POV(filter, which consist of upbringing, parents, friends, school, work etc etc)) we are compelled to understand the world and religious texts in a certain way, namely how our personnal filter is shaped, and we try to make what we see fit into this form. If the form is rigid, resistance is met, if the form is liquid it conforms to what we want.

What is teh common denominator between religions at large?

We can't understand Christianity through Buddhism(depending on who we are of course, but as a general tendency amongst people), or Islam through Judaism and so on.

But I am concerned with how these different ways reflect on me.
Who am I in regards to Buddhism or Judaism and so on. All seem to point to an inner transformation(maybe to loose our filter?) and how we perceive the world.

"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view" Qui Gon Jinn TPM(starwars)

With this in mind, judging others on their, in ones own eye, shortcomings, is reflecting on who one is.


Live and let live


Edit: Jewism to Judaism, you know what I mean, but this is the correct wording



DD - Love & Laughter

Shadowy Man

Jewism??

Darth Dane

I dunno what it is called exactly, isn't it Jewism?
If not please correct me






DD - Love & Laughter

EstherRose

How very narrow-minded and arrogant of you to decide how I must have looked at the Koran and on what basis I rejected it.

Although my discussion about the Koran has been limited to the things River initially stated about the Koran, islam and the bible, I have looked at the koran separately from the bible and examined and rejected it solely on its own lack of merits. You made a big assumption too in believing that I looked at the koran after I became a Christian. What makes you assume that? Probably a negative stereotype of a Christian.

I've listed some of the scientific errors of the koran elsewhere. There are plenty more I did not list. That also applies to a lack of evidence since the things it describes scientifically do not occur. There are numerous contradictions of which I have spoken to many muslims that I am acquainted with. Is it a moral guide? Oh please. There are many things about it I find personally objectionable.

Just because I accept the Bible does not mean I didn't critique the koran as you free thinkers critiqued the koran.

emotional

EstherRose:

First, I apologise if I have made wrong assumptions.

Second, I have seen that the Bible and the Qur'an have the same set of problems - that is, the freethinking filter that applies to the Qur'an applies just the same to the Bible. The Bible, just like the Qur'an, has: no evidence for its claims, lots of internal contradictions, scientific errors and objectionable morality. It is to me a great mystery, therefore, if you have applied that filter to the Qur'an, how you can still remain a believer in the Bible. Either you applied a different standard to each of them (my initial assumption in the OP), or your scepticism is selective.

Or may I just ask a question: what makes the Bible so different from the Qur'an?



BTW Darth Dane, it's Judaism.

Hawkingfan

Have you done this with the Bible, too? The Bible is the same way. Why do you excuse the Bible?
And I'm sure they had some kind of rationalized excuse for continuing to believe the contradictions. But you weren't persuaded. Why? And what about the Bible's contradictions?
Why do you excuse the Bible for the same thing?

hedonist ogre

I've mentioned the same objection to the Bible to many of my Christian friends. The response I always get is that God's morality is different than mine and who am I to judge God. If you truly have not found anything personally objectionable about the morality in the Bible, I suggest you re-read Lev, Num, Deut, and Joshua for starters.

Bree

As other people have stated, above - there are several things I find objectionable about the Bible. However, in your mind (and in other people's minds) the Bible is the true Word of God. How is it that your personal opinion is the "right" opinion, and why should it be followed accordingly by everyone?

emotional

You have committed the ultimate sin of putting your fallible personal feelings over the Word of Allah. You are not in a position to judge Allah. Allah is the Creator and He knows best.

Now just replace "Allah" with "God" and you have what Christians say to atheists who find Biblical morality objectionable...