K

SOMMS:

If you don't believe that your assertion implies that atheists should seek God with an open heart any more than they should seek leprechauns with an open heart, then I don't think we do disagree. If you think your argument is good reason to seek God with an open heart, then we disagree completely.

Bumble Bee Tuna

Well, count me as a yes for all three.
OK, so there's the part I left out of my last post. That I'm "seeking". Well, it just so happens that I AM seeking. I'm not finding the evidence, though.

So tell me, why hasn't God revealed himself to me? Seeing as you're saying it is a necessary fact that IF God exists, he reveals himself to those who are open and seek, my experience and that of millions of other really puts some serious holes in the argument. And if you think that it must happen if God exists...That means from your logic that God does not exist.

-B

Naked Ape

I feel confused, in my world, the heart is a large muscular organ used to pump blood through the body. What special powers do you believe your heart has? How exactly does one ‘open their heart’? It there a ceremonial dagger involved? More importantly, does this leave a mark?

Cheers

Naked Ape

Jobar

Hi Naked Ape- "opening your heart" is a poetic metaphor, based on the ancient belief that the heart contains the human soul. By opening our hearts, we allow our souls to be exposed to God.

You know. Nonsense.

NFLP

SOMMS,
God tells me that the Bible is the work of mythmakers and liars. What is your God's attitude regarding the Bible?

tronvillain

Remind me, have we recieved any compelling reasons to think that God revealing itself would be dependent upon our attitude towards God? Simply pointing out that God tends to reveal himself to believers is evidence for this, but not especially compelling evidence in light of the evidence for alternative explanations.

Now, I do not believe in God because there does not appear to be any compelling evidence for God's existence. That is, all the available evidence is adequately explained without resorting to a god-hypothesis. This is not accurately described as having a "closed attitude" towards God - that would imply that I am not open to evidence of God's existence, which is not the case. I do not believe that extra-terrestrials are visiting the planet Earth, but were they to abduct me tommorow, I would revise my estimate of the probability of the hypothesis being true drastically upwards. Since my attitude about God is the same and God has not revealed itself, then revelation is not a result of having an "open attitude" towards God, God does not exist, or I am not using the correct definition of "open attitude."

If having an "open attitude" is not merely being open to evidence, then what is it? Perhaps it is actively seeking evidence, but as I fail to see what more I could reasonably do to seek evidence, I am again left with the same three possibilities. Perhaps it is a bias towards seeing various outcomes as evidence of God, but what sort of mad or lazy god would make that a condition for providing evidence for its existence?

SOMMS: Would you acknowledge God's sovereign power and authority over everything?

Hey, if he is the real deal, hail to the king baby. If he's got the power, then he has got the power. If an all-knowing, all-powerful being exists, then he is definitely in charge. Hopefully he is a nice guy, but regardless, he can stop by any time...

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

K,
I am claiming that one should seek God with an open heart because of the above tautology.

The tautology applies to the 'how and why we should seek portion' of this claim and not the 'what'.

You raise an excellent question: Given the above Why should I seek God over 'Invisible Pink Unicorn' or 'Xvcthz'?


And while I could probe you about the general revelation that mankind has (or does not have) of 'Invisible Pink Unicorn'...I wonder if it might be a different topic.


Mods...what do you think?


Thoughts and comments welcomed,


Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

All,


I may get some time today...I hope to respond to each of your posts (up to this one).


Thanks for your patience.


Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

K

SOMMS:

Actually, I think this is not a side question, but the fundamental question. I think we both agree that it would be ridiculous to seek Isis, leprechauns, and Hale-Bopp UFOs with an open heart. Nothing in the argument you presented would make it anything short of ridiculous to seek God with an open heart. Nothing has been presented to distinguish God from leprechauns. Both are claimed to present themselves only to those with the right disposition.

Biff the unclean

You forgot pink elephants.
Bartender, I'll have another--and the same again for my pachyderm