Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Half-Life · 05-28-2002, 04:31 PM

I have been away for some time and I think a popst is due.

How are you guys doing?

What do you all think about the gift of tongues? Cause I went to a Pentecostal service where they pray and soemone would start speaking in tongues and then a couple minutes later, someone would get up and trasnalte what the other person just said. To me, this is truly a gift cause how else could someone understand that gibberish unless it was a gift from God? So again I welcome myself back and say hi to everyone.

WhiteKnight · 05-28-2002, 06:25 PM

Have you seen many episodes of Whose Line is it Anyway?

It's an ad-libbed comedy show on ABC, Family channel and Comedy Central.

Anyway, on it, they occasionally do a skit where two comedians act out a scene in a foreign language - one which neither of them appears to really speak. These two trade lines of accented gibberish, while two other comedians "translate" for the audience. Very funny...

Well-meaning, inspirational translations can be made up, too. I still find them laughable, though not in the same way.

Seriously, unless only one person can "understand" and "translate" for everyone else, it should be readily testable. Just get the two translators to write down the translation and compare notes. Of course, you'd need to ensure there is no collusion involved, either...

Jobar · 05-28-2002, 06:45 PM

Half-Life, I think this belongs in Misc. Religious Discussions. Glossolalia (sp?) is indeed an interesting aspect of religious craziness, but isn't directly applicable to EoG.

BibleBelted · 05-30-2002, 11:02 AM

Half-Life,

Good to have you back.

As one who lives in the midst of tongue-talkers, I should have some insight into this subject. That is, I should have, but I don't.

There seems to be a lot of contention even among the tongue-talkers as to what it is, how it's used, and when it is appropriate.

Some denominations claim that you are not saved unless you have this "gift."

Others say it is just a "prayer language" and has no literal interpretation. Personally, I feel it is just a form of religious ecstasy where the speakers become convinced that they are somehow closer to god. Sort of Voodoo Lite. (Though some denominations become quite wild and demonstrative, leading to the term "pew-jumpers." H. L. Mencken wrote a vivid description of attending one of these services while reporting on the Scopes trial. If you like I will post a link to it.)

Some who engage in it appear to have lost control of their actions, while others say they experience no trance-like state whatsoever.

The lack of agreement on what the "gift of tongues" really is, leads me to conclude that it is whatever the individual who desires it wants it to be; that is, it is a human invention and not supernatural.

PS: Hope you find the other half of your life soon.

(Sorry about the cheap shot, must be my damned depraved nature coming out again)

Coragyps · 05-30-2002, 11:20 AM

My one evening at a Pentecostal Holiness church (a coworker who was seemingly a Nice Guy talked me into it!) ended early when the little old lady immediately behind me started speaking in tongues. It sounded like chickenese to me. I left before they even passed the plate.

Tigermilk · 05-30-2002, 11:53 AM

How did the congregation know that the 2nd fellow had interpreted the 1st fellow correctly?

Was it a language that you recognised, or did it sound like something you've never heard before? Example - even if you can't speak Italian, you know when Italian is being spoken, right?

tdekeyser · 05-30-2002, 11:56 AM

I just saw aprogram on the Discovery Channel about this.

There are scientist who have worked in the liguistics field for 30 years on the program.

The bottom line they came to after all the testing......

Speaking in tounges is HOGWASH!

Just another footstep of truth for non-believers. I wonder when just one thing will actually be true for the believers.....Hmmm....

daemon · 05-30-2002, 01:51 PM

This always made me laugh--the Bible has an example of speaking in tongues, in Acts, I believe... it doesn't mean spouting gibberish. It means that everyone who hears you understands you in their native tongue.

If you ever hear anyone babbling nonsense, they aren't speaking in tongues!

braces_for_impact · 05-30-2002, 01:59 PM

When I was young I was invited to mu uncle's church while I satid with him over the summer. It was a pentecostal church. The same thing happened during service here several times. Someone would spout some gibberish, someone somewhere else would translate. I got a wild hair, and I spouted some gibberish towards the end of service. A mix of some Latin words i had heard, mixed with some pig latin and some nonsense words I made up of the fly that to me sounded kind of like Hebrew.

Imagine my surprise when a lady several rows down "translated" my gibberish! My uncle, who new I was faking, was of course mortified and really angry. His anger soothed some after I was congratulated by half the congregation after service for receiving "the gift".

My uncle later simply told me I had said something real and tangible, and god had used me despite my attempt to show condescension. <Sigh> Sometimes you just can't win.

tdekeyser · 05-30-2002, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by braces_for_impact:
<strong>When I was young I was invited to mu uncle's church while I satid with him over the summer. It was a pentecostal church. The same thing happened during service here several times. Someone would spout some gibberish, someone somewhere else would translate. I got a wild hair, and I spouted some gibberish towards the end of service. A mix of some Latin words i had heard, mixed with some pig latin and some nonsense words I made up of the fly that to me sounded kind of like Hebrew.

Imagine my surprise when a lady several rows down "translated" my gibberish! My uncle, who new I was faking, was of course mortified and really angry. His anger soothed some after I was congratulated by half the congregation after service for receiving "the gift".

My uncle later simply told me I had said something real and tangible, and god had used me despite my attempt to show condescension. <Sigh> Sometimes you just can't win.</strong>

HA HA HA Ha!! Great story. Who needs science to see the truth when we have Xians proving it for us!

[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: tdekeyser ]</p>

05-28-2002, 04:31 PM	#1
Half-Life Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A place in the Northern Hemisphere of Planet Earth Posts: 1,250	hey! It's been awhile! I have been away for some time and I think a popst is due. How are you guys doing? What do you all think about the gift of tongues? Cause I went to a Pentecostal service where they pray and soemone would start speaking in tongues and then a couple minutes later, someone would get up and trasnalte what the other person just said. To me, this is truly a gift cause how else could someone understand that gibberish unless it was a gift from God? So again I welcome myself back and say hi to everyone. <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />

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05-28-2002, 06:25 PM	#2
WhiteKnight Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: League City, TX Posts: 55	Have you seen many episodes of Whose Line is it Anyway? It's an ad-libbed comedy show on ABC, Family channel and Comedy Central. Anyway, on it, they occasionally do a skit where two comedians act out a scene in a foreign language - one which neither of them appears to really speak. These two trade lines of accented gibberish, while two other comedians "translate" for the audience. Very funny... Well-meaning, inspirational translations can be made up, too. I still find them laughable, though not in the same way. Seriously, unless only one person can "understand" and "translate" for everyone else, it should be readily testable. Just get the two translators to write down the translation and compare notes. Of course, you'd need to ensure there is no collusion involved, either...

05-28-2002, 06:45 PM	#3
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Half-Life, I think this belongs in Misc. Religious Discussions. Glossolalia (sp?) is indeed an interesting aspect of religious craziness, but isn't directly applicable to EoG.

05-30-2002, 11:02 AM	#4
BibleBelted Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Oklahoma, USA Posts: 891	Half-Life, Good to have you back. As one who lives in the midst of tongue-talkers, I should have some insight into this subject. That is, I should have, but I don't. There seems to be a lot of contention even among the tongue-talkers as to what it is, how it's used, and when it is appropriate. Some denominations claim that you are not saved unless you have this "gift." Others say it is just a "prayer language" and has no literal interpretation. Personally, I feel it is just a form of religious ecstasy where the speakers become convinced that they are somehow closer to god. Sort of Voodoo Lite. (Though some denominations become quite wild and demonstrative, leading to the term "pew-jumpers." H. L. Mencken wrote a vivid description of attending one of these services while reporting on the Scopes trial. If you like I will post a link to it.) Some who engage in it appear to have lost control of their actions, while others say they experience no trance-like state whatsoever. The lack of agreement on what the "gift of tongues" really is, leads me to conclude that it is whatever the individual who desires it wants it to be; that is, it is a human invention and not supernatural. PS: Hope you find the other half of your life soon. (Sorry about the cheap shot, must be my damned depraved nature coming out again)

05-30-2002, 11:20 AM	#5
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	My one evening at a Pentecostal Holiness church (a coworker who was seemingly a Nice Guy talked me into it!) ended early when the little old lady immediately behind me started speaking in tongues. It sounded like chickenese to me. I left before they even passed the plate.

05-30-2002, 11:53 AM	#6
Tigermilk Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jorja, USA Posts: 920	How did the congregation know that the 2nd fellow had interpreted the 1st fellow correctly? Was it a language that you recognised, or did it sound like something you've never heard before? Example - even if you can't speak Italian, you know when Italian is being spoken, right?

05-30-2002, 11:56 AM	#7
tdekeyser Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 341	I just saw aprogram on the Discovery Channel about this. There are scientist who have worked in the liguistics field for 30 years on the program. The bottom line they came to after all the testing...... Speaking in tounges is HOGWASH! Just another footstep of truth for non-believers. I wonder when just one thing will actually be true for the believers.....Hmmm....

05-30-2002, 01:51 PM	#8
daemon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 737	This always made me laugh--the Bible has an example of speaking in tongues, in Acts, I believe... it doesn't mean spouting gibberish. It means that everyone who hears you understands you in their native tongue. If you ever hear anyone babbling nonsense, they aren't speaking in tongues!

05-30-2002, 01:59 PM	#9
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	When I was young I was invited to mu uncle's church while I satid with him over the summer. It was a pentecostal church. The same thing happened during service here several times. Someone would spout some gibberish, someone somewhere else would translate. I got a wild hair, and I spouted some gibberish towards the end of service. A mix of some Latin words i had heard, mixed with some pig latin and some nonsense words I made up of the fly that to me sounded kind of like Hebrew. Imagine my surprise when a lady several rows down "translated" my gibberish! My uncle, who new I was faking, was of course mortified and really angry. His anger soothed some after I was congratulated by half the congregation after service for receiving "the gift". My uncle later simply told me I had said something real and tangible, and god had used me despite my attempt to show condescension. <Sigh> Sometimes you just can't win.

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