Lone Wolf

Oh, that's nice. I can see you're gonna make a lot of friends around here with debating skills like that. Perhaps filling my head with the fear of a magic sky fairy would clear things up?
If? IF? A completely irrelevant supposition. Last I checked, we're not "omniscient". In fact, we're quite imperfect. That doesn't say much for the 'creator' of us little lab rats, now does it?

BUT, that has nothing to do with the original subject anyway. The Bible (which is your supposed god's word, right?) is filled with these codes of ethics and moral guidelines, yet he himself spends most of his time torturing, slaughtering, and drowning folks. You don't see the hypocrisy in this? <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

buttercup

Ok- so I am taking a while to get back to everyone. I have been gone out-of-town for about a week and haven't been able to get online. LoneWolf- hate to burst your bubble- but God doesn't sin. Obviously you don't get that. Rhea- yes, I am female- and I'm not bitter about it either. Just to inform you all, I'm going to stop posting here because to me, it just seems pointless. All the same questions asked, and if I answer, you just ask again in different wording. So why bother. Have a great life everyone-

buttercup

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by buttercup:

<strong>LoneWolf- hate to burst your bubble- but God doesn't sin.</strong>

Are we talking about the christian god as depicted in the Old Testament? Because if so, you must consider genocide a good thing.

<strong>Just to inform you all, I'm going to stop posting here because to me, it just seems pointless.</strong>

No conversions forthcoming?

<strong>All the same questions asked, and if I answer,</strong>

If, buttercup. That's the operative word.

Goodbye!

Lone Wolf

Burst my bubble? Heh heh... that's cute, in an ignorant sort of way. And no, obviously I don't get the idea that your god isn't a sinner. I showed you, with your Bible's own words, that he most certainly IS. I will agree with you on the point that this discussion will go nowhere - especially if the best you can come up with is "no, he's not!"

Rhea

Buttercup, sorry to see you go.

Actually, I was stone cold serious. I did not see you being bitter about being female, but I was really, honestly wondering how you can discuss religion on a web and not violate Paul's commandment to not teach. He commands you to listen & learn. And specifically commands you to NOT teach. Which to me, means discussion and witnessing. And those are both tools to TEACH, which is an activity denied to you because you don't have a penis.

So I was really wondering what you thought of that, and how it reconciles with your doing it while believing that it must be right since it's in the bible. Y'know?

Bree

Damn.

Lost another one.

I was just sharpening my knife, too.

lpetrich

buttercup:
Genesis 7:20-23 - Nearly all life, including pregnant women, innocent children, and animals sentenced to death by means of catastrophic flood.
~ This happened because the people had sinned and commited evils. God's heart was grevied and in pain because of this, but Noah found favor with him and because of this, he and his family lived.

LP:
However, I'm a computer programmer, which makes me a creator of sorts, and IMO, that is STOOPID behavior of a creator. I try to design my creations so that they do what I want them to; I don't allow them to misbehave and then punish them later.

buttercup:
Exodus 9:8-11,25 - Tortured the Egyptians with disease because a pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave.
~ A little tiny thing called sin. The Egyptians were given many many chances to let the Israelites go, and pharaoh refused. Because of this Gods judgement came upon them.

LP:
It was only the Pharaoh who was really sinning here, which makes that very unjust.

buttercup:
Exodus 12:29-30 - Passover execution of Egyptian babies.
~Like above- God's judgement.

LP:
Again, it was only the Pharaoh who was really guilty.

buttercup:
Deuteronomy 7:1-2 - Extermination of men, women, and children of seven nations (then steal their land).
~ The Israelites were Gods chosen people. And it was also a war.

LP:
Presumably justifying a "Final Solution of the Canaanite Question", as it might be called. And acquisition of Lebensraum ("living space" in German).

buttercup:
II Samuel 12:13-18 - As punishment for David's adultery with Bathsheba, kill David's baby.
~ Because David sinned with Bathsheba, his son was killed as a result of that sin.

LP:
However, that little boy was not the guilty one.

buttercup:
Romans 3:24-25 - Torture and murder of his own son.
~ Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. He was sacrificed so that others might live. Jesus rose from the dead- don't forget that. He rose to conquer death.

LP:
Much of which is pure fiction. And I have no taste for kamikaze duty.

buttercup:
I Samuel 15:3 - "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
~ Israelites were Gods chosen people, and this war was given to them. There is a time for mercy, and a time for judgement.

LP:
Presumably justifying this Final Solution of the Amalekite Question.

buttercup:
Hosea 13:16 - "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
~Notice the "for she hath rebelled against her God". She rebelled against God, and His judgement came down on her.

LP:
Again, presumably justifying some Final Solution.

buttercup:
Deuteronomy 32:23-25 - "I will spend mine arrows upon them. . . . The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs."
~They sinned and angered God, and his judgement was brought on them.

LP:
Yet another Final Solution.

[someone else]
In other words, it's ok for the big guy to be a murdering psychopath, but not for us lab rats?

buttercup:
psychopath: "a mentally ill or unstable person "
God is not mentally ill or unstable. So therefore he isn't a psychopath.

LP:
But if the shoe fits...

SeaKayaker

Hello everyone,

I am staying busy on other posts, but I had some ideas about some of the comments here that I would like to post.

Responding to an earlier (much earlier) comment, I would say that not all sins are equal. Any sin will send a person to hell, but this does not mean that all sins are equal. God shows this through differing degrees of temporal punishment (corporal and capital). There is also the unforgivable sin and the comment about Judas committing a worse sin in betraying Jesus. These are large issues that I do not have time to discuss exhaustively here, but I thought that I should mention them.

First, I have to differ with your use of the word “crimeless.” According to the Bible, all people fall short of the glory of God and therefore deserve eternal punishment in Hell. The amazing thing is not that some receive condemnation; it is that some receive salvation. Therefore, because salvation is the free gift of God through Jesus Christ, no one deserves it and therefore he can bestow it upon whomever he wants. The person who was killed was guilty and deserving of Hell. The killer who accepted Christ had a great debt forgiven him.

As a Christian, I strongly agree with this. I would also add, though that everyone is a scoundrel and but only some people are willing to see this side of themselves.

SeaKayaker

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: SeaKayaker ]</p>

excreationist

It's pretty straight-forward actually - sin is when we disobey God and don't do his will. He told humans about how to behave but he didn't tell himself to behave like that. When he causes suffering and death he is doing his will and therefore isn't sinning.

yygke

I am choosing to highlight this passage, because although I haven't read enough of the posts to make a complete reply, this passage stuck out as a misdirected, wrong, and misleading statement that needs to be corrected immediately. Hell IS NOT "God's", in fact, God created hell (actually we dont know how hell was formed), but in any case, it is for Satan. Not for men. Why do you thing God sent His only Son to die, so that all men might go to Heaven. Not hell.