Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 06-04-2003, 04:00 PM

The Journal of Higher Criticism has just put this article online:

A Discovery: The Crucified, Simon, Zealots, and Essenes by Jay Raskin (requires Acrobat Reader)

Raskin hypothesizes that the crucifixion of Jesus in the gospels was modeled on the crudifixion of Simon and James, the sons of Judas the Galilean, mentioned in Josephus. Like most theories, this explains some things, but requires other documents to be treated as later forgeries. But some parts of this theory are quite ingenious.

Quote:

This paper offers several radical hypotheses about the formation of Christianity. First, it suggests that the crucifixion talked about in the New Testament Gospels originally referred to the crucifixion of an actually existing man named Simon. He was a son of Judas the Galilean, who founded what Josephus calls �The Fourth Philosophy.� He had a brother named James, and he headed a large Jewish cult involved in a violent revolutionary struggle against Roman domination of the Jewish provinces of Judea, Samaria and Galilee. Second, I argue that this Simon is identical with the apostle Peter (AKA Simon and Simon Peter). Third, I propose that Christianity originated from the zealous Pharisaic-Essene mass revolutionary movement started in 6 CE by Judas the Galilean. Generally this paper takes the point of view that the details of the four canonical gospels are largely patchwork fantasies and fictions (e.g., a night trial by Pontius Pilate) from multiple sources, however, some incidents found in them (e.g., the triumphant march into Jerusalem) do point towards historical events.

Llyricist · 06-05-2003, 11:11 AM

This is very interesting, though I'd like to see it fleshed out more and see how it might harmonize with ALL the NT texts, i.e. how much and what parts of the gospels etc.. might be said to be based on this history and how much and for what reasons were other parts added or removed.

Toto · 06-05-2003, 11:51 AM

Jay Raskin is fairly active on the Jesus Mysteries yahoo group, although he seems to be taking a break now.

MortalWombat · 06-05-2003, 12:25 PM

Yes, this is interesting. Perhaps it also sheds light on the character of Simon of Cyrene, who stood in for Jesus in carrying the cross. In the end, it was Jesus who was put on the cross, and not Simon of Cyrene, thus taking his place back.

godfry n. glad · 06-05-2003, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
Jay Raskin is fairly active on the Jesus Mysteries yahoo group, although he seems to be taking a break now.

Jay is a university professor and now is a busy time. He will assuredly return to JM, as he is not only a poster, but one of the moderators.

godfry n. glad

Vorkosigan · 06-05-2003, 03:21 PM

It's a great article. I was wondering, though, how Paul could be preaching this Fourth Way to the gentiles so early. It doesn't make sense that Judas' Fourth Way was so open, yet they revolted against Rome.

Vorkosigan

SLD · 06-05-2003, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by godfry n. glad
Jay is a university professor and now is a busy time. He will assuredly return to JM, as he is not only a poster, but one of the moderators.

godfry n. glad

What's his specialty?

Also, is this on-line Journal peer reviewed at all?

SLD

Peter Kirby · 06-05-2003, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SLD
Also, is this on-line Journal peer reviewed at all?

It is an in-print journal associated with Drew University and with editors, among others, Darrell Doughty and Robert Price.

best,
Peter Kirby

Llyricist · 06-05-2003, 06:42 PM

Quote:

I was wondering, though, how Paul could be preaching this Fourth Way to the gentiles so early. It doesn't make sense that Judas' Fourth Way was so open, yet they revolted against Rome.

It occurs to me that if this is right, it really wasn't that "open" but WAS a subversive and secretive movement in the early days. And any of the early and more obvious "throw off the government" ideas just weren't written about to maintain the secrecy (or at least they were cloaked in the apocolyptic texts). But if that was their actual purpose and teaching.... would explain the early persecution quite well.

Toto · 06-05-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SLD
What's his specialty?

. . .

Jay Raskin (you may need to be registered with yahoogroups to see that link)

He appears to currently be a Visiting Instructor on the Religious Studies Faculty of the University of Central Florida, where he got his PhD in 1997.

edited to add: his resume is here. He is the Jay Raskin who directed I Married a Vampire. No wonder I enjoy his posts on the JM list so much.

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06-05-2003, 11:11 AM	#2
Llyricist Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fort Lauderale, FL Posts: 5,390	This is very interesting, though I'd like to see it fleshed out more and see how it might harmonize with ALL the NT texts, i.e. how much and what parts of the gospels etc.. might be said to be based on this history and how much and for what reasons were other parts added or removed.

06-05-2003, 11:51 AM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Jay Raskin is fairly active on the Jesus Mysteries yahoo group, although he seems to be taking a break now.

06-05-2003, 12:25 PM	#4
MortalWombat Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: St Louis area Posts: 3,458	Yes, this is interesting. Perhaps it also sheds light on the character of Simon of Cyrene, who stood in for Jesus in carrying the cross. In the end, it was Jesus who was put on the cross, and not Simon of Cyrene, thus taking his place back.

06-05-2003, 03:21 PM	#6
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	It's a great article. I was wondering, though, how Paul could be preaching this Fourth Way to the gentiles so early. It doesn't make sense that Judas' Fourth Way was so open, yet they revolted against Rome. Vorkosigan

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