Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Laera · 07-18-2002, 10:32 AM

...but post Jesus' version:

From Matthew (KJB):

Quote:

but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

19:18
He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, <strong>Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19:19
Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
</strong>

I have no problem with these. (of course, I'd probably define "adultery" differenly than fundies might)

Think they'd have a problem with this proposition?

Krieger · 07-18-2002, 10:52 AM

Why not just have the teachers actually teach the children to solve their problems non-violently and to treat others with kindness and respect. Wouldn't that be better than some silly list of "commandments"?

GaryP · 07-18-2002, 11:17 AM

There are several secular programs for schools that teach basic human values. If you type in "Character education" into a search engine, many programs pop up. And most are designed for public schools.

At my school, we use a program called "LifeSkills". There are about 12 values which are involved, e.g., honesty, integrity, curiosity, responsibility, etc.

When christians claim the 10 commandments are the one and only way to instill values, ask them how it is that so many civilizations thrived and prospered before the Jewish tribes?

If negative values predominated in ancient cultures, they would not have survived.

And the first 4 are directly in conflict with the US constitution.

As for the commandments that Jesus gave they are lovely sentiments, but we don't need to quote a mythical character to find good examples. And I don't think children need to be prompted to ask their teacher what "adultry" means.

lpetrich · 07-18-2002, 11:21 AM

Or why not post Solon's Ten Commandments, or at least those attributed to that semilegendary lawgiver of 2500 years ago in Athens:

1. Trust good character more than promises.
2. Do not speak falsely.
3. Do good things.
4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made.
5. Learn to obey before you command.
6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful.
7. Make reason your supreme commander.
8. Do not associate with people who do bad things.
9. Honor the gods.
10. Have regard for your parents.

From <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/features/2000/carrier2.html" target="_blank">this Richard Carrier article</a>.

I expect that #9 will get under the skin of all the God-is-an-American theocrats, because it implies that there is more than one god.

Laera · 07-18-2002, 11:40 AM

Quote:

7. Make reason your supreme commander.

I was trying to find a list that would appease the greatest number of people... this would just piss the fundies off! ("Reason over God?? Such heresy!!")

Quote:

Why not just have the teachers actually teach the children to solve their problems non-violently and to treat others with kindness and respect.

I agree this would be great - but why isn't it happening already?

Quote:

I don't think children need to be prompted to ask their teacher what "adultry" means.

Good call!

Bokonon · 07-18-2002, 11:57 AM

Instead of a list of things they can't do, why not a list of things they can do. The Bill of Rights seems a bit more relevant to me.

Of course, the first amendment is bent in every high school in the country. In my high school for example, students were not allowed to put articles about politics in the School Newspaper. So the entire paper was devoted to the new Puddle of Mudd CD or why GAP is what's hot this spring.

Shadowy Man · 07-18-2002, 01:02 PM

Why don't we do away with school instruction completely? We can just post a long list of facts and ideas on the walls of the school hallways and the children can wander around all day "learning".

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07-18-2002, 10:52 AM	#2
Krieger Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: ... Posts: 2,191	Why not just have the teachers actually teach the children to solve their problems non-violently and to treat others with kindness and respect. Wouldn't that be better than some silly list of "commandments"?

07-18-2002, 11:17 AM	#3
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	There are several secular programs for schools that teach basic human values. If you type in "Character education" into a search engine, many programs pop up. And most are designed for public schools. At my school, we use a program called "LifeSkills". There are about 12 values which are involved, e.g., honesty, integrity, curiosity, responsibility, etc. When christians claim the 10 commandments are the one and only way to instill values, ask them how it is that so many civilizations thrived and prospered before the Jewish tribes? If negative values predominated in ancient cultures, they would not have survived. And the first 4 are directly in conflict with the US constitution. As for the commandments that Jesus gave they are lovely sentiments, but we don't need to quote a mythical character to find good examples. And I don't think children need to be prompted to ask their teacher what "adultry" means.

07-18-2002, 11:21 AM	#4
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Or why not post Solon's Ten Commandments, or at least those attributed to that semilegendary lawgiver of 2500 years ago in Athens: 1. Trust good character more than promises. 2. Do not speak falsely. 3. Do good things. 4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made. 5. Learn to obey before you command. 6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful. 7. Make reason your supreme commander. 8. Do not associate with people who do bad things. 9. Honor the gods. 10. Have regard for your parents. From <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/features/2000/carrier2.html" target="_blank">this Richard Carrier article</a>. I expect that #9 will get under the skin of all the God-is-an-American theocrats, because it implies that there is more than one god.

07-18-2002, 11:57 AM	#6
Bokonon Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Left of the Mississippi Posts: 138	Instead of a list of things they can't do, why not a list of things they can do. The Bill of Rights seems a bit more relevant to me. Of course, the first amendment is bent in every high school in the country. In my high school for example, students were not allowed to put articles about politics in the School Newspaper. So the entire paper was devoted to the new Puddle of Mudd CD or why GAP is what's hot this spring.

07-18-2002, 01:02 PM	#7
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	Why don't we do away with school instruction completely? We can just post a long list of facts and ideas on the walls of the school hallways and the children can wander around all day "learning".

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