Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gnome · 05-23-2002, 04:56 AM

Surprised no one else has commented on this. After the fuss about the evengelical school in Gateshead, Blair refused to come out against creationism. Well he's done it twice again in the last fortnight.

At PMQs this week Blair essentially said that its OK for schools to teach creationism if they have good exam results....

<a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/cm020522/debtext/20522-03.htm#20522-03_wqn11" target="_blank">PMQs - 22.05.02</a>

In his interview with Jeremy Paxman last week he did an admirable impression of the famed Michael Howard interveiw and failed to answer Paxman's question about creationism seven times....

JP: You would be happy for your child to be taught that it was literally true that the world was made in six days?

TB: I don't think my children are taught that. I'm not sure that any children are.

JP: You would be happy for your child to go to a school in which that was imparted as fact?

TB: Well, I don't know that it is imparted as fact. Who imparts that as fact?

JP: Creationists impart that as fact.

TB: If this is to do with the school up in the north-east, I wouldn't believe everything that's said. I think you will find the school abides by the national curriculum and teaches children perfectly well. I know there is a lot of criticism of that school, but look at the results. They are pretty good. Most parents want their children to have results as good as that.

JP: Is it appropriate to teach creationism in a state school?

TB: I don't believe that it does in the way you are suggesting. I think it is important... I don't have all the facts at my fingertips in relation to this school, but I know that some of the allegations made were disputed.

JP: Is it appropriate, as a matter of principle, that creationism be taught in schools?

TB: But I am not sure that it is and therefore I don't know that it's a relevant question.

JP: With respect, that's not the question.

TB: Well, it is, in the sense that there is no point in asking me a completely hypothetical question.

JP: I'm not.

TB: I don't think they are very sensible questions to answer. I think that the issue of faith schools is... (goes on to answer different question about faith schools)"

While Blair never has an opinion on anything if he can avoid it, you'd have thought he would have been able to bring himself to condemn creationism. It isn't much to ask...

nogods4me · 05-23-2002, 05:16 AM

how could they not have good exam results? the answer to every question is "goddidit".

Oolon Colluphid · 05-23-2002, 05:30 AM

Bastard! I missed the Paxman interview, and thought it had died down and far as Soapy Tone was concerned...

And the ire-producing irony is that it comes at the same time as he�s supporting science against the tree-hugging anti-GM crowd (like, what living thing isn�t genetically modified...?

) ...

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1997000/1997461.stm" target="_blank">Blair�s backing for science</a>

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_2003000/2003596.stm" target="_blank">Blair vows to 'speak up for science'</a>... yeah right!

Mind you, you can�t really blame Blair. I doubt there�s been a focus group on the matter... so he won't have a definite opinion...

TTFN, Oolon

seebs · 05-24-2002, 10:50 AM

If a school is able to list creationism as an "alternative theory", and yet, they can *STILL* get decent results on tests of real science, I am in genuine awe of those teachers.

sullster · 05-24-2002, 01:43 PM

Calling Richard Dawkins! Get you butt over to 10 Downing Street pronto! The bloody PM is waffling on creationism in the schools.

What is going on here? It is usually only the dim-witted fundamentalist Yanks who are creationists. This is England, the land of Newton, Hume, Darwin and enlightened reason. How can this be?

Where are we? Birmingham ,Alabama or Birmingham, UK?

Calling Richard Dawkins! Put on your selfish jeans and get over to talk with the PM. Tony Blair is acting like a blind watchmaker. Pretty soon he will think that Mount Improbable is only 6000 years old. Hurry my man!

lpetrich · 05-24-2002, 02:52 PM

Alternative possibility: Tony Blair may be trying to get the fundie vote.

Which would be in character with his official pietism.

05-23-2002, 04:56 AM	#1
Gnome Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 39	Tony Blair & creationism again Surprised no one else has commented on this. After the fuss about the evengelical school in Gateshead, Blair refused to come out against creationism. Well he's done it twice again in the last fortnight. At PMQs this week Blair essentially said that its OK for schools to teach creationism if they have good exam results.... <a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/cm020522/debtext/20522-03.htm#20522-03_wqn11" target="_blank">PMQs - 22.05.02</a> In his interview with Jeremy Paxman last week he did an admirable impression of the famed Michael Howard interveiw and failed to answer Paxman's question about creationism seven times.... JP: You would be happy for your child to be taught that it was literally true that the world was made in six days? TB: I don't think my children are taught that. I'm not sure that any children are. JP: You would be happy for your child to go to a school in which that was imparted as fact? TB: Well, I don't know that it is imparted as fact. Who imparts that as fact? JP: Creationists impart that as fact. TB: If this is to do with the school up in the north-east, I wouldn't believe everything that's said. I think you will find the school abides by the national curriculum and teaches children perfectly well. I know there is a lot of criticism of that school, but look at the results. They are pretty good. Most parents want their children to have results as good as that. JP: Is it appropriate to teach creationism in a state school? TB: I don't believe that it does in the way you are suggesting. I think it is important... I don't have all the facts at my fingertips in relation to this school, but I know that some of the allegations made were disputed. JP: Is it appropriate, as a matter of principle, that creationism be taught in schools? TB: But I am not sure that it is and therefore I don't know that it's a relevant question. JP: With respect, that's not the question. TB: Well, it is, in the sense that there is no point in asking me a completely hypothetical question. JP: I'm not. TB: I don't think they are very sensible questions to answer. I think that the issue of faith schools is... (goes on to answer different question about faith schools)" While Blair never has an opinion on anything if he can avoid it, you'd have thought he would have been able to bring himself to condemn creationism. It isn't much to ask...

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05-23-2002, 05:16 AM	#2
nogods4me Contributor Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 17,432	how could they not have good exam results? the answer to every question is "goddidit".

05-23-2002, 05:30 AM	#3
Oolon Colluphid Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alibi: ego ipse hinc extermino Posts: 12,591	Bastard! I missed the Paxman interview, and thought it had died down and far as Soapy Tone was concerned... And the ire-producing irony is that it comes at the same time as he�s supporting science against the tree-hugging anti-GM crowd (like, what living thing isn�t genetically modified...? ) ... <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1997000/1997461.stm" target="_blank">Blair�s backing for science</a> <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_2003000/2003596.stm" target="_blank">Blair vows to 'speak up for science'</a>... yeah right! Mind you, you can�t really blame Blair. I doubt there�s been a focus group on the matter... so he won't have a definite opinion... TTFN, Oolon

05-24-2002, 10:50 AM	#4
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	If a school is able to list creationism as an "alternative theory", and yet, they can STILL get decent results on tests of real science, I am in genuine awe of those teachers.

05-24-2002, 01:43 PM	#5
sullster Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North of Boston Posts: 1,392	Calling Richard Dawkins! Get you butt over to 10 Downing Street pronto! The bloody PM is waffling on creationism in the schools. What is going on here? It is usually only the dim-witted fundamentalist Yanks who are creationists. This is England, the land of Newton, Hume, Darwin and enlightened reason. How can this be? Where are we? Birmingham ,Alabama or Birmingham, UK? Calling Richard Dawkins! Put on your selfish jeans and get over to talk with the PM. Tony Blair is acting like a blind watchmaker. Pretty soon he will think that Mount Improbable is only 6000 years old. Hurry my man!

05-24-2002, 02:52 PM	#6
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Alternative possibility: Tony Blair may be trying to get the fundie vote. Which would be in character with his official pietism.

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