Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tribalbeeyatch · 07-17-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
because, like half the folks who responded to this poll, i think that the unborn fetus should be protected from harm.

Given the results and peculiar wording of your poll, I don't think that is necessarily an accurate characterization of their beliefs.

brighid · 07-17-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

because, like half the folks who responded to this poll, i think that the unborn fetus should be protected from harm.

Most people who respond to these polls here believe that a fetus should only be protected after a point, and the vast majority of people don't believe first trimester abortion should be illegal.

A clump of cells inside my uterus deserves no more protection then a clump of cancer cells in your colon. A fertilized ovum isn't a guarantee for human life. 50% are "naturally" aborted (or for those how believe in God aborted by the Creator himself.)

Brighid

ex-xian · 07-17-2003, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid
A clump of cells inside my uterus deserves no more protection then a clump of cancer cells in your colon. A fertilized ovum isn't a guarantee for human life. 50% are "naturally" aborted (or for those how believe in God aborted by the Creator himself.)

Well, to be fair, the fetus should at least get some consideration. It it, if nothing else, a potential human being. And will naturally develop into one if nothing interupts the its develop. Colon cancer is just, well, cancerous.

I'm curious though, when do you think that a fetus actually becomes a full human being?

yguy · 07-17-2003, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid
Most people who respond to these polls here believe that a fetus should only be protected after a point, and the vast majority of people don't believe first trimester abortion should be illegal.

A clump of cells inside my uterus deserves no more protection then a clump of cancer cells in your colon.

So at 11 weeks it's a clump of cells that deserves no protection, and at 13 weeks it deserves protection? Why?

Quote:

A fertilized ovum isn't a guarantee for human life. 50% are "naturally" aborted (or for those how believe in God aborted by the Creator himself.)

I guess that would be His lookout.

Vylo · 07-17-2003, 03:13 PM

Quote:

A fertilized ovum isn't a guarantee for human life. 50% are "naturally" aborted (or for those how believe in God aborted by the Creator himself.)

That would be miscarriage, and it is non-intentional. If I die of old age I am not naturally murdered.

Daleth · 07-17-2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
So at 11 weeks it's a clump of cells that deserves no protection, and at 13 weeks it deserves protection? Why?

I can't answer for everyone, but here are some of the reasons people would give. At this stage:

The brain begins to function, and it's the brain that makes us human
The mother may feel the "quickening" (first movement of the fetus, which some people consider the time when the soul enters the body)
The fetus has survived the riskiest part of the pregnancy and there is now a MUCH higher chance that it's a viable pregnancy
With a functioning brain, the fetus may now be able to feel pain

Daleth · 07-17-2003, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vylo
That would be miscarriage, and it is non-intentional. If I die of old age I am not naturally murdered.

Technically, it's called a spontaneous abortion. Women who are losing babies they really wanted often don't love hearing the term, but that's what it is.

yguy · 07-17-2003, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daleth
I can't answer for everyone, but here are some of the reasons people would give. At this stage:

The brain begins to function, and it's the brain that makes us human

Does that mean a person with brain which functions at a level below some particular standard isn't human? If so, what about people in comas? Are they not human?

Quote:

The mother may feel the "quickening" (first movement of the fetus, which some people consider the time when the soul enters the body)

No one knows when the soul enters the body. It could easily be at conception.

fatherphil · 07-17-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid
Now to use the pro-life argument on you: if you got your wife pregnant when you did not want a child too bad for you. You were irresponsible and negligent and therefore should be burdened with the care of the child for the rest of its natural life. We won't help you and we won't have any sympathy for you.

Brighid

that sounds like what the outcome for me would be. unless i go fishing like scott peterson.

fatherphil · 07-17-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tribalbeeyatch
Given the results and peculiar wording of your poll, I don't think that is necessarily an accurate characterization of their beliefs.

when does a human being have access to the protection of the laws of our land?

how would you word it? perhaps the question for some folks is "do you have the courage of your convictions?"

View Poll Results: when does a human being have access to the protection of the laws of our land?
after conception	9	12.86%
3 months after conception	7	10.00%
6 months after conception	15	21.43%
9 months after conception	3	4.29%
after birth	33	47.14%
18 years after birth	3	4.29%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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