Milton

You can't even admit that you made it up, that's a shame. Talk about being ignorant.

What in the world was your objection for? I guess you didn't like the fact that I don't believe like you, huh? Is that why you told me that I should stay out of it?

I can tell.

What tells you that I have not read about it? What tells you that have not heard the arguments for it?

You being one of them and deserting them, doesn't make you better qualified than someone who is currently interacting with them.

You resort to mocking? That sure is an educated way of discussion.

Armchair dissident

Certainly in the churches I used to go to, they did. I remember going to many meetings where the people would try to "baptise me in the spirit". It's only after a few tries that one of the more - ahem - spirited members of the church advised me to speak gibberish "and it'll come". Strange thing was, after a few weeks I became convinced that I was really speaking in tongues, and not talking gibberish.

It wasn't until quite some time later I realised what was really going on

One of the churches I went to decided to go one further than that: most of their congregation roll around laughing throughout the sermon. They called it "the joy of the spirit". I always thought they sounded like a pack of rabid hyenas. Main reason I started question christianity.

Biff the unclean

It's an altered state of consciousness; the oracle used drugs, the pentecostals (and many other religiouns) use prayer, meditation, and suggestion.
The Oracle is actually the building. It was a woman called The Pythoness who used the drugs. On that spot the god Apollo had killed the Python--a great mythological snake whose myth was taken from the same primitive myths that the Eden snake was taken from.
There is a stream in the hills above Delphi that is ripe with alkaloids because of mineral deposits it runs through. When this stream hits the fissure it is turned to steam and that is the "drug" of choice.
About a hundred yards away from this spot a second stream does the same thing. But it is only fresh water and no gods talk to anyone there.
The alkaloids and sulfates in the steam affect the brain's chemistry. To get the same effect through prayer and meditation you have to have a self induced hysteria. This is entirely possible but is a sign that something is drastically wrong with the functioning of the person's brain.
To induce this state through suggestion is faking it.

I am constantly amazed by how gullible people are.
The Pythoness, lacking any knowledge of chemistry, probably did think she was communing with Apollo. The Priests who translated her gibberish and the Seers who translated their ambiguities surely knew that they were fakes.
The scary lady who leads the revival by going "Abongaba abongaba hai" surely knows it is a fake too. I'm sure when she is in Vegas spending all the money she's made from the revival she has a good laugh over it.

Biff the unclean

One of the churches I went to decided to go one further than that: most of their congregation roll around laughing throughout the sermon. They called it "the joy of the spirit". I always thought they sounded like a pack of rabid hyenas. Main reason I started question christianity
Count yourself lucky you are in the UK. Back in "hill country" in the southern US similar churches would have had you swigging strychnine and dancing around with rattlesnakes in both hands.
That's nothing to laugh about.

ex-xian

Hello? I didn't make it up. My beliefs are based on what I see as the reasonable positions of some of the best philosophers of religion. Just because have no knowledge outside your fundamentalism doesn't mean they're made up. Once again, a fundy has displayed their ignorance. I thought you guys would have learned not to make comments w/o knowing what you're talking abou by now.

No, what bothered me was that you made a generalization based upon ignorance. As someone who was intimately involved with the group you generalized about, I'm in a position to falsify you claim.

Good, hopefully you also be able to tell why I don't take it seriously. Because it's ridiculous. The bible is a bunch of fairy tales, he died 2000 years ago and he's not coming back. Deal with it.

Well, your ignorance tells that you haven't read any scholarly writings regarding the subject. I'm sure you are causually familiar with the arguments, more likely though, you're familiar with strawmen. So, what books have you read about this branch of xianity?
I didn't desert anyone. To desert implies that I left in a cowardice or underhanded way; I walked out openly. You're currently interacting with pentecostals? This makes it sound like you're an open minded, reasonable person. However, this:

Reveals your true feelings.
Hey, you're the one who described yourself as a fundy.

Armchair dissident

I must say I only heard about people actually doing that fairly recently, and initially thought that someone was pulling my leg. But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it started over here.

Whilst the UK remains - despite having a state religion - a relatively fundy-free society; they're still here and they'd love to have the political clout that fundies appear to have in America.

It won't be long before snake-handling, poison drinking, and fire walking all make their mark in the CofE

Biff the unclean

Of the three pick fire walking. I tried that once years back in the Mariana Islands. It turns out that wood is a very poor conductor of energy and it doesn't hurt at all, walking on the hot coals.
It's the same as when you bake a cake. You can stick your hand in the oven and it won't get burned because air is a poor conductor. But never touch the pan that the cake is cooking in because metal conducts heat very well indeed

JEST2ASK

A most interesting thread (IMO) just some random observations and questions (request for clarification)

it seems that "Christian' & "Fundamentalist" rather than being labels with a common single meaning are rather subjective.

However could / would conkermaniac or Milton help me understand how some one could not believe in the trinity and still be a "Christian" - also what Scriptures clearly point out that speaking in tongues is not a spiritual gift (**then I stumbled upon the Scriptures that showed me that this was all a lie.)

Helen M provides a quiet compassionate voice of reason (IMO most reflective of Christian behavior) that all too often gets overlooked by the ego driven posturing I have often wondered why that seems to be the norm

profession of ideals not being demonstrated in behaviour.

Armchair dissident

I came across the physics of fire walking not so long ago thanks to James Randi's (obviously: www.randi.org) site. I may have to give it a try sometime to show how "divinely inspired" my lack of beliefs in god is Seems a lot safer than bungie jumping anyway

Biff the unclean

I would suggest that if you do walk on hot coals that you go first. And go with a handful of pennies to sprinkle as you walk.