galiel

Everyone has permission to piss and moan about Ashcroft. It's practically a patriotic duty.

Hell, if you piss ON Ashcroft, he'll probably think he's been appointed to a new position (note clever reference to his habit of having himself annointed with Crisco whenever he starts a new gig, not clever enough to stand on its own without this lame explanatory tag, though).

ybnormal

No, people need to start voting for and being active for the Democratic (i.e., only viable) opposition.

How many of the people who are pissing and moaning right now either didn't vote at all, or voted for some meaningless third party in our winner-take-all electoral system?

Altho I understand the do-good context of your comments, it would be appreciated if you would stop chiding people like myself with instructions as to what we "need" to do re our voting privileges. I only voted once, as a joke, back in the Sixties, and I don't remember it being a national election. It may well have been, but I don't remember. If it wasn't, then I have never voted in a national election, and this fact has changed nothing whatsoever in my life, nor in anyone else's life. Voting only really matters in a few specific, close elections anyway, so there is no dire "need" in ALL cases. If I personally lived in a state where it possibly mattered, then you'd maybe have a case.

That said, I have no duty to anyone to vote anytime, anywhere, and yours is a judgment that I don't appreciate. Certainly when someone like yourself turns around to call one's personal choice "meaningless", after insisting that I do it in the first place. I've let your "people need to" instructions pass several times before I finally took time to bring it to your attention. It's bugged me for a while now. And in my particular case, don't waste your time searching for any pissing and moaning, as it's doubtful you'll find such... commentary yes, but "people need to" instructions? No. Thanks for listening.

ybnormal

NOTHING Karl Rove does has anything to do with luck.

Reread... IF it was coincidental, it was sheer luck.

galiel

yb, despite the comment coming from me, it wasn't a criticism of you. It was a bitter comment about Karl Machiavelli Rove.

Seems I can't fart these days without someone on these boards thinking I'm going to blame them.

Yellum Notnef

LOL!
I got the joke immediately without needing an explanation.

GaryP

I believe that many of these groups already get mucho federal funding, e.g., Lutheran Social Services. They just need to keep the money separate from their general fund. And they have to promise not to use it to proselytize or discriminate.

That makes this new initiative even more scary to me.

ybnormal

Galiel...

I was being practical and serious. I understand your Rove point... he's a nice little Nazi. But I seriously didn't know whether the Bush appearance had been announced and scheduled before the wonderful Lott gaff... if it had, then they just used it perfectly to dirty Lott.

Same with the First lady... I didn't know whether the shooting victim had already been announced and scheduled to be released from the hospital today, which also would have been sheer luck...

That's all... I have no beef with you.

As for the voting thing, it's just one of my picky things... like one's family saying you must get married... or whatever... this goes back to right after I tried to support your "activism" thing, then realized I had a whole nother idea of "activism"... sorry, I just have problems being instructed... always have been... I even hate signs telling me what to do... go figger.

Peace!

EDIT/ADD... speaking of Rove, did it not surprise that there was no take up of him on the Esquire Mag article thread... not that I responded either, but it's certainly one of the first "real" articles of its type on the Administration.

[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: ybnormal ]</p>

SecularFuture

<a href="http://www.healthcentral.com/news/NewsFullText.cfm?id=510773" target="_blank">http://www.healthcentral.com/news/NewsFullText.cfm?id=510773</a>

Bush also wants to ban stem cell research!! Why?? Because it goes against his faith!!

THIS IS GETTING SERIOUS NOW PEOPLE!! WE NEED TO START PROMOTING AL GORE'S CRITIQUE OF BUSH'S BAD WORK IN THE WHITE HOUSE, AND WE NEED TO VOTE AGAINST BUSH IN THE NEXT ELECTION, AND MAKE SURE WE GET EVERYONE ELSE TO VOTE AGAINST BUSH!! EVERYTHING HE IS DOING IN THE WHITEHOUSE IS BASED ON INTUITION, AND NOT CRITICAL, RATIONAL, OR SCIENTIFIC THINKING!!

[KEEP IN MIND: Please remain patient and mature, and think out each word / action before presenting them. And try to design your anti-Bush message for the secular and non-secular.]

[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: SecularFuture ]</p>

galiel

I don't really understand this sentiment, for two reasons.

1) You benefit from the privileges of living in a society. There are responsibilities that go along with that--not because some authority figure scolds you about it, but because social organization is all about the compromise between individual freedom and community health. If you don't vote, you are essentially leeching off the system without putting anything back.

2) You are fortunate to be, unlike billions of others, in a society where you can have input on who makes the decisions that ultimately effect your life at every level, including your ability to continue to live in the first place. You obviously care about issues and have passionate feelings about the results of the elections. Where is the logic, then, in resisting the responsibility to vote? And from whence comes the right to complain about the outcome if you don't participate in the decision-making process?

I'm now going to put my conceptual curmudgeonly old coot hat on and say, we really need civics education in this country. People don't seem to understand how the system works and where they come in. To keep a democratic republic functioning at all, its citizens need to do more than gobble up vast quantities of goods on one end and shit out taxes on the other.

There. I will now remove my conceptual curmudgeonly old coot hat and return you to your normally scheduled pissing and moaning session

SecularFuture

And one more thing:
WE ALL TALK THE TALK VERY WELL.... BUT NOW ITS TIME TO WALK THE WALK!!! GO REGISTER TO VOTE!!! YOUR LIVES, LITERALLY, DEPEND ON IT -- IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT!!!