Freethought & Rationalism Archive

doink-chan · 01-02-2002, 02:57 PM

Last night I was thinking about the Xmas story, and I was wondering this: Mary supposedly had a child by God after saying she would agree to having one, and as soon as she said it, some of God's Magic Sperm(TM) must have gotten into her body pretty quickly, because not only was the kid conceived after Mary said she would agree to having a kid, she apparently remained a virgin even though God's Magic Sperm(TM) was in there!

That story is sickening to me, because it makes me think of rape, and only proves to me that God is a big doink. Do you think that Mary's having a kid with "God" is considered rape, or not?

Makai · 01-02-2002, 07:01 PM

Er? Wouldn't rape mean that Mary would have had to object, or express a desire not to be Holy-Mother-Person? Since she agreed to the 'procedure', I wouldn't classify it as rape. And technically...if she really was still a virgin, how *could* it be rape? "Help! Help! I ambushed and raped by a horde of maruading sperm!"

-Makai

Scrutinizer · 01-02-2002, 09:44 PM

doink-chan,

Makai seems right to me. Rape is only rape if it is unwanted sexual penetration of the mouth, vagina or anus.

Mary explicitly consented to be impregnated by the Holy Spirit according to Luke 1:38 --

"'I am the Lord's servant,' Mary answered. 'May it be to me as you have said.' Then the angel left her."

Regards,

- Scrutinizer

Orpheous99 · 01-03-2002, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Makai:
<strong>Er? Wouldn't rape mean that Mary would have had to object, or express a desire not to be Holy-Mother-Person? Since she agreed to the 'procedure', I wouldn't classify it as rape. And technically...if she really was still a virgin, how *could* it be rape? "Help! Help! I ambushed and raped by a horde of maruading sperm!"

-Makai</strong>

Even if a minor agrees it is still concidered to be rape. She was suppose to be around 12 or 13 years old.

Jack the Bodiless · 01-03-2002, 03:45 AM

Furthermore, considering the difference in maturity, intellect and personal charisma between a teenage girl and a 4000-year-old Creator Of The Universe And All That It Contains, any competent lawyer should be able to make a good case for statutory rape.

Was it likely that she would say no to God?

DarkBronzePlant · 01-03-2002, 07:20 AM

Keep in mind that, although they wouldn't phrase it this way, Christians excuse god's activities by the old "do what I say not what I do" clause. Meaning that god can impose whatever laws he wants to upon humankind, but he himself is exempt from those laws. If god slaughters people, he has not committed murder, because, well, he's god, so it's just not murder. If god wants to boink Mary, then it's not rape, because, well, he's god, so it's just not.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 01-03-2002, 10:15 AM

How can one truly refuse God? God sorta supercedes your wants and desires. Hell, he really can change yer mind for you. Saying no is like telling no to a man with a knife at your throat. Don't mean much. Especially if the man with the knife at your throat is the only one who testifies...

Makai · 01-03-2002, 11:52 AM

Orpheous99-

I wasn't aware that she was supposedly 12-13 at the time. If this is the case, then according to modern standards, I suppose it would technically be considered rape. Quite correct =)

Jack the Bodiless-

Yes, if we're talking court, a case could be made for a rape charge on those grounds. But I was responding to whether I actually think the event *was* rape or not. While, according to Orpheous' comment, it would have been rape, I wouldn't think that just because it was God that we can necessarily assume it was rape. Since the idea of the God involved in this case generally rests upon such things as the Free Will concept, I don't think we can at the same time claim rape on 'mind control' grounds and claim that it was the traditional Xian God.

-Makai

01-03-2002, 12:03 PM

Orpheous99,

12 to 13 was a verry common marriage age in many civilizations. It is also the age of consent in many areas, although there are additional statutory limitations regarding age differences. (Since God transcends time alltogether, it hardly seems likely that those laws are applicable to him- he has no date of birth save in his physical incarnation which did not, to the best of my knowledge, have sexual intercourse with Mary, ever virgin.

Orpheous99 · 01-03-2002, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Synaesthesia:
<strong>Orpheous99,

12 to 13 was a verry common marriage age in many civilizations. It is also the age of consent in many areas, although there are additional statutory limitations regarding age differences. (Since God transcends time alltogether, it hardly seems likely that those laws are applicable to him- he has no date of birth save in his physical incarnation which did not, to the best of my knowledge, have sexual intercourse with Mary, ever virgin.</strong>

Women were also concidered to be nothing more than property as well so it was irrelevant if she wanted to or not. That still didn't make it right.

01-02-2002, 02:57 PM	#1
doink-chan Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: My mom's uterus, duh! Posts: 18	Is Mary having a child by God considered rape? Last night I was thinking about the Xmas story, and I was wondering this: Mary supposedly had a child by God after saying she would agree to having one, and as soon as she said it, some of God's Magic Sperm(TM) must have gotten into her body pretty quickly, because not only was the kid conceived after Mary said she would agree to having a kid, she apparently remained a virgin even though God's Magic Sperm(TM) was in there! That story is sickening to me, because it makes me think of rape, and only proves to me that God is a big doink. Do you think that Mary's having a kid with "God" is considered rape, or not?

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01-02-2002, 07:01 PM	#2
Makai Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 51	Er? Wouldn't rape mean that Mary would have had to object, or express a desire not to be Holy-Mother-Person? Since she agreed to the 'procedure', I wouldn't classify it as rape. And technically...if she really was still a virgin, how could it be rape? "Help! Help! I ambushed and raped by a horde of maruading sperm!" -Makai

01-02-2002, 09:44 PM	#3
Scrutinizer Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 245	doink-chan, Makai seems right to me. Rape is only rape if it is unwanted sexual penetration of the mouth, vagina or anus. Mary explicitly consented to be impregnated by the Holy Spirit according to Luke 1:38 -- "'I am the Lord's servant,' Mary answered. 'May it be to me as you have said.' Then the angel left her." Regards, - Scrutinizer

01-03-2002, 03:45 AM	#5
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	Furthermore, considering the difference in maturity, intellect and personal charisma between a teenage girl and a 4000-year-old Creator Of The Universe And All That It Contains, any competent lawyer should be able to make a good case for statutory rape. Was it likely that she would say no to God?

01-03-2002, 07:20 AM	#6
DarkBronzePlant Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Posts: 3,568	Keep in mind that, although they wouldn't phrase it this way, Christians excuse god's activities by the old "do what I say not what I do" clause. Meaning that god can impose whatever laws he wants to upon humankind, but he himself is exempt from those laws. If god slaughters people, he has not committed murder, because, well, he's god, so it's just not murder. If god wants to boink Mary, then it's not rape, because, well, he's god, so it's just not.

01-03-2002, 10:15 AM	#7
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	How can one truly refuse God? God sorta supercedes your wants and desires. Hell, he really can change yer mind for you. Saying no is like telling no to a man with a knife at your throat. Don't mean much. Especially if the man with the knife at your throat is the only one who testifies...

01-03-2002, 11:52 AM	#8
Makai Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 51	Orpheous99- I wasn't aware that she was supposedly 12-13 at the time. If this is the case, then according to modern standards, I suppose it would technically be considered rape. Quite correct =) Jack the Bodiless- Yes, if we're talking court, a case could be made for a rape charge on those grounds. But I was responding to whether I actually think the event was rape or not. While, according to Orpheous' comment, it would have been rape, I wouldn't think that just because it was God that we can necessarily assume it was rape. Since the idea of the God involved in this case generally rests upon such things as the Free Will concept, I don't think we can at the same time claim rape on 'mind control' grounds and claim that it was the traditional Xian God. -Makai

01-03-2002, 12:03 PM	#9
Synaesthesia Guest Posts: n/a	Orpheous99, 12 to 13 was a verry common marriage age in many civilizations. It is also the age of consent in many areas, although there are additional statutory limitations regarding age differences. (Since God transcends time alltogether, it hardly seems likely that those laws are applicable to him- he has no date of birth save in his physical incarnation which did not, to the best of my knowledge, have sexual intercourse with Mary, ever virgin.

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