Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ex-robot · 01-25-2002, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pandora:
Here's six "Doctors" from ICR for starters... I'll find you ten if you really want, but I haven't got time right now.

"Dr." Carl Baugh, a fundamentalist Missouri Baptist minister with no scientific background, claims to be an archaeologist. He also claims to have a Ph.D. from the California Graduate School of Theology in Glendale. When a local skeptic checked with the primary organization responsible for accreditation (The Western Association of Schools and Colleges), he was informed that this "graduate school" has not been accredited.

Who told you he worked for ICR?

Quote:

"Dr." Richard Bliss, a member of the ICR staff, has claimed to have a D.Ed. from the University of Sarasota located in Florida. In the 1984 spring issue of "Scientific Integrity", William V. Mayer pointed out that this university has been characterized by the "Philadelphia Inquirer" as a diploma mill in a Florida motel (see Lovejoy's College Catalog). Bliss has accused evolutionary scientists of "intellectual dishonesty". He also claims to be "a recognized expert in the field of science education" and is co-author of a "two-model" book that is being pushed for use in the public school system.

This guy is dead I believe. At least the guy had a legitimate masters and was a professor at the U. of Wisconsin.(in comparison to everyone's favorite creationist, Hovind)

Quote:

"Dr." Clifford Burdick of the CSRC (Creation Science Research Center) is a "flood" geologist who has spent forty years trying to prove that giant humans once roamed the earth and even mingled with the dinosaurs. Burdick has displayed a copy of his Ph.D. from the University of Physical Sciences (Phoenix, Arizona) in the Glen Rose Creation Evidence Museum. However, the State of Arizona Board of Regents, the University of Arizona Department of Geology, and the Arizona State Bureau of Geology and Mineral Technology have never heard of this "university."

Who told you he worked for ICR?

Quote:

"Dr." Kelly Segraves, director of the CSRC, listed himself as M.A. and D.Sc. on the 1975 CSRC letterhead. After having it called into question, Segraves dropped the D.Sc. in 1981 and now lists "D.R.E." in its place. Segraves has claimed that his D.Sc. is honorary from Christian University, yet a computer search indicated that the only university with that name is located in Jakarta, Indonesia. The next closest match is a Bible College called Indiana Christian University (see below). Segraves claims to have received his M.A. from Sequoia University in 1972 but Bette Chambers discovered that there is no such place. The closest name match is a Sequoia College in California, which only offers two year associate degrees and has no record of any student named Kelly Segraves. Note that "D.R.E." is a doctorate of religious education and does not qualify as a scientific degree.

Never heard of him. Who told you he worked for ICR?

Quote:

"Dr." Harold S. Slusher of the ICR claims to have an honorary D.Sc. from Indiana Christian University and a Ph.D. from Columbia Pacific University. Robert J. Schadewald recently discovered that Indiana Christian University is a Bible College with only a 1/2 man graduate science department, and Columbia Pacific University is nonaccredited.

This guy might be dead too or at least hasn't been active for an extremely long time. In any case, I don't believe he is with ICR anymore. Same goes for him like Bliss. Had a legitimate masters and was professor at Texas El paso I believe.

Quote:

DeYoung Donald B claims to be a Professor of Astrophysics, with a B.S. from Michigan Technical University, 1966, an M.S. from Michigan Technical University, 1968, and a Ph.D. (Physics) from Iowa State University, 1972.
In American Men and Women of Science, 18th edition, 1989-90, DeYoung is also shown to have the following degree:
MDiv., Grace Theol. Sem. 1981
In addition, as of that edition, it lists him as being an Associate Professor of physics at Grace College in Winona Lake, Indiana. For research, it gives "Mossbauer effect studies of transition metal borides." There is no indication in this book of any background or expertise in astrophysics. It classifies him as "solid state science."
Furthermore, a check of the Astronomy and Astrophysics Abstracts shows no publication by a Donald DeYoung in any of the many journals that they track.
He clearly is not an astrophysicist (although he may play one at the ICR).

Thanks to <a href="http://www.holysmoke.org" target="_blank">www.holysmoke.org</a> for the above!

Who the hell cares that he got a theology degree??? He received it well after his physics degree anyways. If you look at ICR's grad school webpage, it is Astro/Geophysics. I could have sworn you needed to know a lot of physics for astronomy! It lists him as the instructor for Electricity & Magnetism this past year. I could find no mention on the entire site about him being an astrophysicist. Could it be he teaches primarily physics in the Astro/Physics department? Hmmmm...

Good thing you didn't have to pay for that information. It is pretty dated and pathetic.

xr

ex-robot · 01-25-2002, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MOJO-JOJO:


Probably the closest they can get is this guy, who is "endorsed" by Richard Dawkins as the "best" they can offer;

<a href="http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/dawkins_21_4.html" target="_blank">Kurt Wise</a>

..although his PhD is in Geophysics, not Evolutionary Biology.

Actually, his undergraduate degree is in geophysics. His doctorate is in Geology. ICR has Paleontology in parentheses whatever that means, but I have always heard him referred to as a Paleontologist. I guess Veith with his little Ph.D. in Zoology might come in second....

Oh, Oh! Maybe Eggen with Animal and Molecular Genetics... Nahhh, nothing to do with biological evolution.....

xr

Edwin · 01-26-2002, 10:00 AM

Two suggestions for really stupid ideas to use (sorry if some creationist thought them up first)

How the light from distant stars got here: They were created close up and then accelerated to their current positions. Evidence: galaxies are actually receding.

Dinosaur skeletons: Ordinary lizards that grew to huge sizes in the nice conditions before the flood.

Dr Rick · 01-26-2002, 12:34 PM

Consider adding a unique apocalyptic twist to your tale that explains not only our origins but also the "scientific facts" showing that the obviously IDed earth is clearly in the "end times;" fundies just love that kind of stuff. You'll be demonstrating not only the truth of creation but also your unique God-given understanding of what it holds for us in the future and why. Who wouldn't buy such a book?

Cite the "recent creation" of HIV, antibiotic resistance, increased numbers of shark attacks, volcanic eruptions, and a few really twisted lies (making some of it up will give you the appearance of being an authentic fundie), tie them all together with some techno-babble about the 2LoT (fundies will accept any explanation that makes evolution appear impossible), moon dust, 9/11, and then juxtapose some verses from the Book of Revelation.

NY Times Best Seller List material!

Asha'man · 01-27-2002, 08:25 AM

Another suggestion: use nothing but misleading misquotes from legitimate researchers. That gives you some very credible sources to draw from. However, if anyone actually looks at the quote, it will be clear that the book is bogus, and you may limit your damage in scientific circles. This also makes it easier for scientists to win debates, since we will have handed the creationists our own, carefully constructed, straw man.

You might want to make sure the misquoted scientist is informed of this tactic, just to keep from getting in legal trouble.

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01-26-2002, 10:00 AM	#33
Edwin Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: UK Posts: 77	Two suggestions for really stupid ideas to use (sorry if some creationist thought them up first) How the light from distant stars got here: They were created close up and then accelerated to their current positions. Evidence: galaxies are actually receding. Dinosaur skeletons: Ordinary lizards that grew to huge sizes in the nice conditions before the flood.

01-26-2002, 12:34 PM	#34
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	Consider adding a unique apocalyptic twist to your tale that explains not only our origins but also the "scientific facts" showing that the obviously IDed earth is clearly in the "end times;" fundies just love that kind of stuff. You'll be demonstrating not only the truth of creation but also your unique God-given understanding of what it holds for us in the future and why. Who wouldn't buy such a book? Cite the "recent creation" of HIV, antibiotic resistance, increased numbers of shark attacks, volcanic eruptions, and a few really twisted lies (making some of it up will give you the appearance of being an authentic fundie), tie them all together with some techno-babble about the 2LoT (fundies will accept any explanation that makes evolution appear impossible), moon dust, 9/11, and then juxtapose some verses from the Book of Revelation. NY Times Best Seller List material!

01-27-2002, 08:25 AM	#35
Asha'man Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: southeast Posts: 2,526	Another suggestion: use nothing but misleading misquotes from legitimate researchers. That gives you some very credible sources to draw from. However, if anyone actually looks at the quote, it will be clear that the book is bogus, and you may limit your damage in scientific circles. This also makes it easier for scientists to win debates, since we will have handed the creationists our own, carefully constructed, straw man. You might want to make sure the misquoted scientist is informed of this tactic, just to keep from getting in legal trouble.

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