DMB

I think that the greatest effect is achieved through diplomatic pressure. To get MPs, congressmen, etc., interested and to write to the State Department, Foreign & Commonwealth Office, etc.

The Nigerian Federal Government seems to be pretty ashamed about these cases, but the states are able to have these horrible laws.

wildernesse

If you go to Amnesty International's webpage, there are letters you may use/edit to send to your US representative or the ambassador of Nigeria about this case. It may not feel like you're doing much, but if you send a letter, then you will have spoken on this issue.

Although I know that there have been people here who say that one letter may not do very much, but it's more than nothing at all. What is better than talking after the fact, is trying to influence policy prior to screw-ups like this.

<a href="http://www.aiusa.org/" target="_blank">Amnesty's US page</a>

--tibac

wildernesse

I agree wholeheartedly with you, and I would say that the line is not where moderate beliefs merge with fundamentalism, but at the letter of the law. This is also why the law/state must be secular. How you build a legal system that provides for the rights of all people--minorities and outcasts, powerful and weak--is still being discovered. Of course, because of my American public school background I know that the Founding Fathers were the closest to this knowledge.

Please don't forget that there are theists who are just as opposed to the church influencing the state as you are.

--tibac

excreationist

Alonzo Fyfe:
I think that if we point out an abuse that most theists agree is an abuse then it cause them to acknowledge that there are limits beyond which religion ought not to be taken.
Well if they are moderate Christians they would have already realized that, and if they are Fundamentalist Christians they might support similar OT-style laws and maybe say that those Islamic laws are stupid. So perhaps no-one is really learning anything.

Besides, people at the march will be complaining about having "under God" in the pledge and "In God We Trust" on the money, and creationism in the schools.
Well that is relevant to America.

...We should be clear that we think that there is a line, beyond which religion ought not cross.
That sounds reasonable... but I think it could have a better spin that could mention humanistic ideals like inclusiveness (vs. in God *we* trust), rationality (vs. *young-earth* creationism and suicide bombings), equality (vs. Islamic laws) - and then it would be possible to avoid using the word "religion"... (which could alienate some receptive Christians)

4th Generation Atheist:
...What we want to avoid for the march is criticism of belief, of the "God is stupid" variety, which we feel comfortable venting here and in our homes but not at a large public event...
Somehow I think there would a lot of "God is stupid" style banners, if the banners thread is anything to go by...

Alonzo Fyfe

There is no clear dividing line between "moderate" and "fundamentalist".

There are always those who are near the line, and a legitimate objective would be to draw those who are just beyond the line over to our side, to draw those who are just a step beyond them a little closer to the line so that they can be reached by the next event or message, and to prevent those who are standing near the line on our side from being drawn across the line to side with the opponent.

This is the wise thing to do.

It may well be the case that a particular event or action will, instead, push people on our side of the line over to the other side, and push those just across the line further into the opposition camp.

This may well be what will happen.

But it does not change the facts about what should happen.

4th Generation Atheist

Sadly, I think you're probably right. I was hoping for a big march of mainstream people showing that atheists are ordinary people with rights like everyone else, with some people pointing out the motto and Pledge issues. A good supply of liberal theist supporters would suit this kind of march nicely, as would some people protesting the decision that is the basis of this thread. Unfortunately, it looks like we're going to get a small band of combative chronic malcontents, determined to marginalize us just before a major election. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Sigh. We need that like we need more boogars. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />