tgamble

Maybe. but they are fond of quoteing scientists out of context and misrepresenting their work. Does that count?

Really? It maybe be registered by a religious organiation but they are claiming it's a museum of scientifically valid information. Pretending that it's something other than religious dogma. If that isn't fraud, it's pretty close to it. It's certainly sleezy and dishonest!

Viti

You have got to be kidding. I would love to see that...link please?

schu

I think his property is outside of town so I don't know if any permits are required.

Kevin Dorner

Well, that's (some) religion for you. <a href="http://www.douglasdispatch.com/display/inn_news/Religion/religion1.txt" target="_blank">Here's an example</a> I found today as I was scanning for Wire stories.

This is part of a sermon printed in a newspaper.. I wouldn't have expected to find it in an Arizona paper, but there it is. Mind you, it's in the religion section, but it certainly makes a claim. It doesn't say "we believe that there is..." but instead makes a definitive statement, albeit a completely ludicrous and bigoted lie of one.

Now the crux of the issue is: where does one draw the line between religious speech and deceptive speech? Where would someone start involving civil or criminal law in this? I don't think that this line can be drawn, as we will then be sliding down a slippery slope to interference with matters of conscience. If we draw a line in this case, what if someone says "I know that there is a god" instead of "I believe that there is a god" in a sermon? Again, a definitive statement is being made of that of which there is not proof. Do we make a distinction here and move this outside the realm of protected religious speech? Now the flip side: what if someone says "I know there is no god?" Can anyone make the same distinction and call this fraudulent? Because, you know as well as I, the latter example would be pursued far more vigorously and with malice than the former...

Gradually, education and awareness will win out, and statements like the one I quoted, and Barnumesque museums of falsehoods will fall out of favour. Until then, we all have the right to be wrong.

[ August 18, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

tgamble

Good points. Through since the museum is an alleged place of scientific education (and not a church) I think standard rules should apply. Saying that there is no evidence for human evolution is stupid and false.

Saying Eugene Dubois hid the wadjack skulls for 30 years is outright slander. Or that Marcellin Boule said the Peking man was a monkey.

<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/wadjak.html" target="_blank">http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/wadjak.html</a>

<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/monkeyquote.html" target="_blank">http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/monkeyquote.html</a>

is something else. It's making false statements about people that they should know to be false.

Through I'm not sure if AIG has finally stopped making the claim. Probably not, I don't recall seeing on their arguments not to use page.

Ditto with attacking Gould, Dawkins, Darwin etc. with out of context quotes and misrepresentations. If they are going to present themselves as an educational and scientific place, they should be held to the same standards.

What would happen if the Museum of Natural history used Piltdown man as evidence...?

Blinn

I just found this recent <a href="http://kypost.com/2002/jul/22/kycreation072202.html" target="_blank">article</a> about AiG. Check out the name of the church...

tgamble

LOL! Sad that so many people are being deceived by idiots like Ken Ham.

Maybe the local scientists should get more involved with seminars and Q & A sessions etc. all the misinformation AIG is spreading isn't doing anyone any good.

Albion

I think we should be grateful to scientists like Ken Miller who take time to fight back. I've met a lot of scientists who don't take it seriously or who simply don't want to take time away from their research to get involved; they resent having to spend time justifying science to people who don't know and don't want to know what it is. And I've come across a few who spend so much time fighting creationists on a personal level in their work that they haven't got the excess energy to spend their spare time at it too.

KnightWhoSaysNi

From <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/details.asp?Event_ID=851" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/details.asp?Event_ID=851</a>

Scigirl, you and a bunch of infidels are meeting in Denver on Sept. 7, right? Maybe you should do a demonstration or something.

Hmmm, let me think of some picket sign statements... How about "PSEUDOSCIENCE IS NOT A FAMILY VALUE!"

Kevin Dorner

Isn't that the state park where the Creation Museum is being built?