Amie

yes you have brought up a good point, The bible I am using when I refer to it is the second edition revised standard version, I need to cross referenec to another since I know it sates somewhere that there was 2 of each kind of "clean" animals and 7 of "unclean" I need to find my other bible. The story as we have all learned clearly states 2 of each however there are differences in the scripture, depending on what you are using. Now when you bring up the numbers of the animals, it is interesting because the only ones we really care about with this discussion are the air breathing kind so we can eliminate sea life for this and also many of the species we know now have evolved over time to be what we know.
I think that "billion" is a rather high estimate.
Amie~

Tristan Scott

<a href="http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/science/flood.html" target="_blank">Great Floods and Science</a>

Mad Kally

I'll take your silence as a yes.

Kosh

I think we have a problem here. Since Amie is a public school teacher, using her sick day to prove the Flood, then our tax dollars are paying for this. Isn't that a violation of the separation of Church and State?

Amie

yes I understand what you are saying here. I know the scientific evidence as we know it appears to conflict with the idea of the Great flood. However the 2 can coincide with one another. When you ask for the Creationist's version of geological processes are you referring to biological data and where it play in all of this? I can only speak for myself and I certainly am aware in evolution. I could not teach science and be unaware of such scientifical informations, however the processes of evolution are not necessarily hindered by personal beliefs. As human beings we believe certain things, and when believing in those things we have the capacity to alter and process the information that we take in. Now If a certain creationist is not willing to accept scientific data then they in fact are hindered. it is my belief that science does not conflict with the flood. I will get into that, however in discussing this subject I will first have to talk about the omniscience of God since I think that will come up later on and I am going to do that right now. Let me get to typing...
Amie~

Lone Wolf

Hello again Amie,

Sorry to hear you're getting nasty emails... IMO, that's really not necessary. Anyway...

Upon reading back over this thread, there's still many unanswered question - particularly the biology ones. What about the parasites? What about diseases? Germs? Insects? (I'm not quite so generous as to let you off the hook on the insects )

Also, a repeated theme you've been using is the idea that Earth was so drastically different less than 5000 years ago - different enough to allow land animals to travel from anywhere to the middle east. What evidence do you have for this? ps418 posted this link:

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/" target="_blank">Creation Science and Earth History</a>

In response to all that information, can you provide any peer reviewed scientific articles which support your land mass speculation?

(I'm off to work, so I won't be responding til this evening)

LW

Amie

oy! now had I really not been sick, the answer would be yes. There needs to be a fever clause somewhere in the separation
Kally: sorry hon, I did not try to evade. My answer is yes.

Goliath

Dark Jedi,

Although this thread has been (relatively) civil, I can't really see how anyone could call what has gone on here a "debate."

Infidels (as well as a couple of theists) on this thread have asked question after question of Amie, and every response that I've seen from Amie has been the logical equivalent of "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!"

So....what, exactly, is being debated in this thread?

Sincerely,

Goliath

Jayhawker Soule

Amie,

I'm sorry to hear that you're not feeling well. Also, permit me to add my voice to those who are sorry for any insulting email you might have received.

At your convenience, I would like your estament of (1) the age of the earth, and (2) the approximate date of the Flood. Also, any comment you might have regarding the Documentary Hypothesis would be appreciated.

Take care ...

Amie

I'll read the link. I did not read it before since quite honestly I thought that ps418 was a bit rude so generally speaking, I wont respond to that. It was either dont respond or tell him "Do kindly piss off" I opted for the first one
Now you ask about parasites and such. Many of the forms of disease we know now were most likely not prevalent back then, many probably did not exist at all. I have a great science book called "parasite Rex" let me see if there are any references I may be able to post here regarding the mutations of strains as we know them now versus back then. As biology teacher I can assure you that although the vectors for these parasites, bacteria, viruses remain the same more or less, the actually parasites/germs/viruses themselves are evolving. Let me go read that link, now the skeptic links are going to be just as erroneous to me as the christian links that I used were to you. Please remember that. However I will read what is before me.
so first omniscience then parasites. Thats a good place to start...
ok omniscience: we know that the power of omniscience is an all knowing concept. sometimes as humans it would be easy to forget that just because something is omniscient does not take away from the power of free will. I believe that we were given free will in order to give ourselves as many learning opportunities as possible. The greatest amount of pain will ultimately be the greatest source of strength. As human beings we have the ability to do wonderful things for each other however on the other side of that, as humans we also have the power to do horrible things to each other. God being omniscient will not take away from our will and our will does not take away from omniscience. I have heard the arguments of "but why did God kill his own creation" or "why wouldn't God simply have transformed everyone and nOT flooded" I dont have the answer since I am not the voice of God. However there was lessons in what happened to be learned and it did happen for a reason. It is my personal belief that people are inherently good. People are not inherently evil, people are not inherently either good or evil, people are inherenly good. However it is the problem of society and social structure that can cause the demise of human kind. It is the things that people place as important that lead to the evils as we know them today. Back when Noah existed, these problems in society were prevalent and so society was deemed to "start over" using Gods's omniscience in this situation is important because the people involevd had the faith that the outcome would be beneficial to everyone much later on in life. God being omniscient, he is all knowing and therefore knows all that had happened, all that will happen. When something posesses the qualities of omniscience and omnipresence then they are part of all seen, unseen, known, unknown and it is through our finite thinking that we are unable to grasp the concept of what led the animals to know, how did he control the animals, how was there possibly the room on board, was there breeding involved on the Ark and so on and so forth...
However with the scripture, we know tht Noah had done all that was asked of him, we do not have full details but it was through the omniscience of God that all would be well. According to the story, we know that an olive branch was brought back to Noah by a dove, now it is only through our thinking that we assume that this olive tree could not have grown during this particular time frame because our thinking is limited to the laws of nature as we know them, now if you step outside that thinking, then what are you left with? endless possibilities..
Amie~

Goliath do you actually have a question? or are you quite comfortable just complaining?

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Amie ]</p>