Totalitarianist

Why do agnostics refuse to admit that they are atheists?

Llyricist

well the literal "cannot know" agnostics have nothing to admit.

the ones think "there may be something out there" are just being honest with themselves, and likewise have nothing to admit.

It's mainly theists that force the hand though, i.e. if you don't believe in MY god... you're an atheist. In that sense many professed agnostics may as well profess atheism.

Myself, I would "buy" a god defined as being simply everything, but not of a personal, other sentient nature, but hardly anyone defines god that way so I call myself an atheist most of the time.

Demigawd

I agree with Llyricist, and his statement pretty much sums up the reason why I consider myself to be an agnostic. However, I do have a sympathy for the atheistic stance, considering how many different theologies have evolved along with humanity.

Are the various world religions shadows on our collective cave's wall, or is it all just wishful thinking and indoctrination? Frankly, I don't know. And neither does anyone else, regardless of conviction.

Llyricist

When I think about it though, many of the "cannot know" agnostics ARE actually atheists in that they do not BELIEVE in God (since atheist only implies a lack of belief). Though many actually suspend belief rather than NOT believe, so its a whole can of worms and semantics when ya really think about it LOL

Demigawd

Well, parroting a popular phrase on this site, which God are you referring to? And that's my entire point. There have been so many gods throughout history that I'm left thinking humans either are only seeing a shadow of the real deal or we're just making shit up as we're going along.

On the other hand, assuming you mean the Christian god, then I must concede that I'm atheistic towards that dogma in all its myriad forms. The whole "you gotta believe in God" thing is extraordinarily dubious. The rhetoric of Christianity is so circular: ie., to understand the bible you have to have to believe it's true. Frankly, I could accept anything as truth *IF* I started under the conviction that it's true. The whole thing is an appeal to the gullible.

Llyricist

well as I said, I am a definite atheist in so far as the Christian god is concerned as well ;-)

Chad

Personally, I think "agnostic" is a meaningless and useless word. This whole debate is so simple. A theist is a person with a belief in the existence of a god or gods. An atheist is someone that, at a minimum, lacks a belief in the existence of a god or gods. If you do not believe in the existence of any god or gods, you are an atheist by default. Answering "I don't know"when questioned about the existence of gods does not change the fact that an agnostic lacks a belief in the existence of any god or gods and is, therefore, an atheist. Furthermore, identifying yourself as an atheist or theist does not require knowledge. Therefore, saying I don't know says nothing. After all, if we know that gods do or do not exist, there would be no atheists or theists, only people that know gods do or do not exist. Finally, I do not know if a god or gods exist. However, not only do I lack the belief that any gods do exist, I also believe gods do not exist.

Llyricist

With that I agree Chad, though there are many that want to keep SOME sort of differentiation between agnostic and atheist

quartodeciman

Atheists are from Uranus and agnostics are from Neptune.

I'm from Neptune. I'd accept atheist, but only if pronounced 'uh-THIH-ist' and not 'AAYYY-thih-ist'.

Quart

Demigawd

There *is* a difference between agnosticism and atheism, even if it's just on definitive grounds. As I said before, I err on the atheistic side more often than naught. However, I cannot place myself solely in that camp because I cannot honestly support absolutes that are beyond me.

If anyone, theistic or atheistic, considers my stance to be fence-sitting, then knock yourself out. I don't mind being objective towards any sort of reality.