winstonjen

How do you know that men didn't invent these statements so that they would have more credibility?

Diadectes

Magus: I'm assuming by this statement that you consider 5 billion people to be stupid morons with no education or intelligence?

Since when has the majority always been right? A few hundred years ago the majority of people thought the world was flat. They were wrong. The Egyptians believed in their religion for thousands of years. They were wrong (probably). Sorry, Magus, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that 5 billion people are indeed deluding themselves that a supernatural God exists. If it is arrogant to observe that many, many human beings are insecure, needy and, sad to say, gullible (and we’re all guilty of it at some point in our lives) then fine, call me arrogant. Doesn’t alter the fact, though.

Magus: And Christianity isn't inhumane or hateful. Its the most loving thing on Earth, but you are too blinded to realize it

Not blind, Magus (and you have the audacity to accuse others of arrogance! Sheesh!) just extremely doubtful that your particular brand of Christianity can in any way be called humane.

Magus: I don't know of anything more loving than God coming to Earth in the flesh and giving up His mortal life to save muderers, rapists, theives, and people who spend their whole lives hating and rejecting Him

Except that you have consistently failed to explain how this can be possible, given that according to you God cannot be in the presence of sin. But I’ve accepted that you are unwilling (or incapable) of answering the knotty problems unless the Bibble provides you with the answer first, so we’ll let it go.

Magus: And what is your definition of innocent? Who determines the meaning of innocence? You? Society?

Yes, Magus, society, since it is society that makes the rules. Simple really. Oh, and I think it’s already been mentioned, but if you seriously believe that an unborn child is not innocent and therefore deserving of major genetic defects then I have to seriously worry about your state of mind.

Magus: His (God’s) definition of innocence is correct

Please give us God’s definition of innocence.

Magus: That’s the problem. You are basing God's actions, and Christianity on YOUR standards, when you should be basing your actions on GOD's standards.

Please explain the difference between the two. In what way are God’s standards superior to the best of human standards? (you know, love, truth, mercy, forgiveness, etc)

Magus: God's standards and morality will always be infinitely higher than yours

Where’s the evidence for this? The Bible frequently paints a very different picture to the one you’re describing. No decent modern human being would behave in the vile and infantile way that God does for much of that book.

Magus:
you lack understanding in God's methods and purposes.

Maybe, but that’s fine. Human notions of fairness, love and mercy are good enough for me. I wonder why they are not good enough for you.


Magus: How do we have contempt for humanity? Yes, I see humanity as extremely destructive and sinful ( including myself), but that doesn't mean I have contempt for it. I strive to show people the path that leads from the destruction, and towards peace and love in God. Its a shame you can't see that

Have a bit more faith in yourself Magus. I’m sure you’re quite a nice person really, conceited statements like the one above notwithstanding.

Magus: I come to this board and see constant ridicule, hate, sarcasm etc for the people as well as the beliefs that you don't agree with

You do set yourself up for it, though, Magus. You are consistently belittle people because they have not been fortunate to receive the great revelation that you have. Remember your “you have no grasp of theology” statement. Not only was that utter nonsense (there are plenty of people here who, from what I’ve read, have an almost infinitely greater grasp on theology and its history than you will ever have), but was one of the most pompous statements I have yet to read on this forum. It’s your self-important attitude that gets people’s backs up, Magus, not your theology (most of us here recognise that for what it is – meaningless and poorly rationalised twaddle)

Magus: On the lower forums I see constant jokes made about Christians, or disgusting and immoral posts about sex buddies. That is immoral, but atheists obviously think screwing around with anyone is perfectly moral and righteous

There we go again! Because atheists don’t subscribe to the supernatural they must all be immoral sex-crazed perverts. Keep it up, Magus – when the Theocracy establishes itself I’m sure you’ll get a good job in the Ministry of Misinformation. After all, we’ll need people like you to turn the populace against atheists, Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, trade unionists, university professors, etc etc, otherwise all those concentration camps (sorry, ‘idea re-programming camps’) are going to go to waste, aren’t they?

You know nothing at all about me, Magus, so kindly refrain from including me in your attempts to dehumanise those who don’t believe in your giant sky fairy. In any case, show me the proof that Christians behave in a more moral way than atheists. You can’t, so why not throw this particular red herring back into the sea.


Magus: Yes, we do point out errors in false doctrines and beliefs ( Catholicism),

Who decides that you are right and they are wrong (and, please, do no claim that it’s God, or Jesus, or the Holy Bedsheet, unless you’re going provide evidence to show how that little voice in your head is the real one and the Catholics are listening to someone or something else altogether)


Magus: we are called idiots, morons, delusional , stupid, and other more offensive terms

Unfortunately, Magus, it’s your refusal to respond to the challenges to your ‘theology’ in an adequate fashion that leads many to describe you as the above. Perhaps some of us (myself included) could possibly tone down some of our comments, but frankly it’s sheer frustration with your apparent inability to think for yourself (as opposed to letting the Bibble do it for you) and your utter inflexibility that leads many to respond in a less than courteous fashion.

emotional

The Bible also speaks of a solid roof above our heads (the firmament), in which windows were opened to let the Flood waters down. Do you accept that the sky is solid, Magus? If you don't then you're submitting to the word of fallible human science instead of God's Word. Also, the moon is a light. It doesn't reflect sunlight as modern science says, it shines by itself as the Bible says ("two great lamps" - sun and moon).

Biff the unclean

By reading the earlier books. What's so strange about that?

I will take the word of God, over humans attempt at understanding the world.
But you don't. Your own actions in the "What's The deal with Rapture Ready?" thread show that you are not telling the truth.
You were presented with over a dozen quotes, from various books of the NT, of Jesus saying that the "Rapture" would happen during that generation. Some quotes had him specifically say that it would happen while the very people who were listening were still alive.
But you didn't take "the word of God."
You relied solely on human understanding of the world. A human understanding of history, which says it didn't happen. A human understanding of the present, which says if it had happened we wouldn't be here.
And you picked human understanding over the "word of god" because you then declared that the word of god MUST mean something other than what it clearly says. Because HUMAN UNDERSTANDING shows what Jesus so clearly says to be wrong. So you twisted the word of god to fit human understanding.

scombrid

Do you eat shellfish or crustaceans?

Have you any concept of infinity?

A lifetime is finite which is infinitesimally small compared to eternity. How is infinite torture justice for finite crime?

scombrid

Has god spoken to you personnally on this matter?

The bible is man's attempt at understanding the world through the alleged word of god. You need to find some means of convincing us that the bible is the literal word of god before you can use the "Were you there!?!" argument.

scombrid

The bible is the word of god because it says so?

Ad Astra

Hey, Magus, I think you missed a question!

Since you seemed to have missed it, I thought I'd bring it to your attention again.

Bookwyrm

Ditto. Additionally, the councils which determined which of the books, gospels, epistles and other purported Holy writings would be considered canon threw out a great many contradictory works. Is it really all that surprising that the books in the Bible verify and support each other when they were purposely selected by men to do so?

EstherRose

We can be in God’s presence because of Jesus. He paid the price for our sins. Our sins are now forgiven and forgotten in God’s sight. In order for this to happen, we have to accept God’s gift of grace.

I recall Magus writing this more than once on this board.

Because of sin, evil exists in the world. Evil is not discretionary, it hurts everyone equally. God does not want sin, but Man rejected God and incurred His wrath. God allows evil to remain. God gave Adam free will. For this to be meaningful, there needs to be consequences to his rebellion and sin. Humanity is still in disobedience and still face consequences.

Despite all of this, God has stepped in at times and limited evil. More importantly, God has provided another means by which we can come to Him, His Son Jesus. One day He will create a new earth without sin in it. In the meantime, God does not promise Christians an easier life without hardships any more than any other person is promised this. He does promise us eternal life and that He dwells in us.



God is all powerful, Almighty and righteous. Humans are flawed sinful creatures. That sums up why God’s standards are superior to human standards, at least it does to me and other Christians.

And you were presented with all sorts of evidence as to what the text really said in the context of the entire passage, but you have refused to believe it. That is your choice. You are beating a dead horse. You don’t want us to try to force our beliefs onto you, but you insist on forcing your beliefs onto us.


Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses and a New Covenant was established between Man and God. Under that new covenant, we are no longer required to go by the old law to obtain righteousness. Obviously some things still are important such as not committing murder. And there are many moral things the Lord wants us to adhere to, which are reiterated in the New Testament, but we are not required to meet every single regulation of the Law of Moses to obtain our salvation.




Leviticus 14
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "These are the regulations for the diseased person at the time of his ceremonial cleansing, when he is brought to the priest: 3 The priest is to go outside the camp and examine him. If the person has been healed of his infectious skin disease,

Please note that this is not represented in the bible as a cure, but rather as part of a person’s ceremonial cleansing. Please note this is what the Jews were required to do under the Law of Moses if a person has been healed of the disease, not meant as a cure for the disease. If you had read the entire passage in its context you would have noticed the above verses. The ceremonial cleansing was not meant for healing purposes but, as part of the Law of Moses, to make a person righteous before God if they followed every part of it.