Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MrDarwin · 01-30-2003, 08:52 AM

Paul, I have politely answered some of your questions, and politely raised some specific ones of my own. You cannot ignore them and continue to complain about the treatment of creationists by "evolutionists".

MrDarwin · 01-30-2003, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul
Well I happen to think that all Scientist have something to add
in all fields of Science after all what would a Biologist know about
geology and the Big Bang theory

A vanishingly small percentage of biologists, and only slightly larger percentage of scientists in general, disbelieve in evolution.

A mMuch larger percentage of all scientists doubts the existence of god(s). So what's your point?

Paul · 01-30-2003, 09:23 AM

my point is that biologyists maybe the main experts on biological evolution but who are the experts in fossils on which you base a very strong case on.

Happy Wonderer · 01-30-2003, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul
my point is that biologyists maybe the main experts on biological evolution but who are the experts in fossils on which you base a very strong case on.

I think that they are called paleontologists .

HW

Selsaral · 01-30-2003, 01:00 PM

As Happy Wonderer says, paleontologists. Paleontology is a subfield of geology, which is the study of the Earth. Geology isn't just the study of rocks and minerals, it is a versatile science covering numerous fields and describes essentially the entire phsyical and biological history of the planet. It deals with vast time scales and the 'big picture'. It includes minerology, stratigraphy, paleontology, historical geology, glacial geology, structural geology, the study of all the different types of rocks (clumps of minerals), depositional environments, landform analysis, plate techtonics, etc. It integrates seemlessly with biology, chemistry, and physics. Most undergraduate geology students spend their first two years intensively studying biology, mathematics, chemistry, and physics before tackling the core geology courses.

TerryTryon · 01-30-2003, 03:12 PM

The trouble with creationist arguments is that they kind of coalesce around three or four logical fallacies. Once you have pointed out the fallacies and given reducio ad absurdum corrollaries for the arguments, there's really nothing to do but "is so/is not" exchanges, that become very tedious to the point that just to liven things up, ad hominem and gratuitous insults are tempting.

Argument from ignorance. The world (life, brains, eyes, planentary distance, universal constants) is too complex for us to explain. Therefore, it could not be a natural occurance. Therefore: God.

Assumption that propositions about factual matters have moral significance. It is not an empirical question whether life evolved; it is a matter of faith. It is good to believe in god and the bible; it is evil not to believe in god or the bible. God's truth will win out in the end and those without faith who seek natural explanations will be punished.

Ad hoc alternative explanations are equivalent in the power to convince as are observations and findings that mutually support and amplify each other. Billions of gallons of water suddenly created from nothing and just as suddenly vanishing is as good an explanation as that which involves developing dating methods, searching and comparing fossils, measuring differences in DNA molecules from many species of animals, etc.

A rotten apple spoils the barrel. Scientists who commit frauds and hoaxes and other scientists who try to incorporate these falsehoods into evolutionary theory prove that all scientists are frauds and hoaxters.

It would be fun to have some pet creationists on this site whom we coddle and flatter, so they will continue to make asses of themselves for our enjoyment and to feed our egos, but is that really a worthwhile or praiseworthy enterprise?

Oolon Colluphid · 02-03-2003, 03:37 AM

Where did Paul go?

Went the way of his god-of-the-gaps, and vanished in a puff of logic, apparently...

DT

Jobar · 02-03-2003, 07:37 AM

He stood up.

BOOM!

The Naked Mage · 02-04-2003, 09:34 AM

And this is the neighbor who told us where to find Paul...

BOOM!

The Naked Mage · 02-04-2003, 09:36 AM

And this is where the neighbor grew up...

WHA-BOOOOOOOOM!

<laughs maniacally>

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01-30-2003, 08:52 AM	#51
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	Paul, I have politely answered some of your questions, and politely raised some specific ones of my own. You cannot ignore them and continue to complain about the treatment of creationists by "evolutionists".

01-30-2003, 09:23 AM	#53
Paul Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Cyprus Posts: 34	my point is that biologyists maybe the main experts on biological evolution but who are the experts in fossils on which you base a very strong case on.

01-30-2003, 01:00 PM	#55
Selsaral Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan Posts: 3,095	As Happy Wonderer says, paleontologists. Paleontology is a subfield of geology, which is the study of the Earth. Geology isn't just the study of rocks and minerals, it is a versatile science covering numerous fields and describes essentially the entire phsyical and biological history of the planet. It deals with vast time scales and the 'big picture'. It includes minerology, stratigraphy, paleontology, historical geology, glacial geology, structural geology, the study of all the different types of rocks (clumps of minerals), depositional environments, landform analysis, plate techtonics, etc. It integrates seemlessly with biology, chemistry, and physics. Most undergraduate geology students spend their first two years intensively studying biology, mathematics, chemistry, and physics before tackling the core geology courses.

01-30-2003, 03:12 PM	#56
TerryTryon Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Glendale, Arizona, USA Posts: 184	The trouble with creationist arguments is that they kind of coalesce around three or four logical fallacies. Once you have pointed out the fallacies and given reducio ad absurdum corrollaries for the arguments, there's really nothing to do but "is so/is not" exchanges, that become very tedious to the point that just to liven things up, ad hominem and gratuitous insults are tempting. Argument from ignorance. The world (life, brains, eyes, planentary distance, universal constants) is too complex for us to explain. Therefore, it could not be a natural occurance. Therefore: God. Assumption that propositions about factual matters have moral significance. It is not an empirical question whether life evolved; it is a matter of faith. It is good to believe in god and the bible; it is evil not to believe in god or the bible. God's truth will win out in the end and those without faith who seek natural explanations will be punished. Ad hoc alternative explanations are equivalent in the power to convince as are observations and findings that mutually support and amplify each other. Billions of gallons of water suddenly created from nothing and just as suddenly vanishing is as good an explanation as that which involves developing dating methods, searching and comparing fossils, measuring differences in DNA molecules from many species of animals, etc. A rotten apple spoils the barrel. Scientists who commit frauds and hoaxes and other scientists who try to incorporate these falsehoods into evolutionary theory prove that all scientists are frauds and hoaxters. It would be fun to have some pet creationists on this site whom we coddle and flatter, so they will continue to make asses of themselves for our enjoyment and to feed our egos, but is that really a worthwhile or praiseworthy enterprise?

02-03-2003, 03:37 AM	#57
Oolon Colluphid Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alibi: ego ipse hinc extermino Posts: 12,591	Where did Paul go? Went the way of his god-of-the-gaps, and vanished in a puff of logic, apparently... DT

02-03-2003, 07:37 AM	#58
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	He stood up. BOOM!

02-04-2003, 09:34 AM	#59
The Naked Mage Veteran Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Execution State, USA Posts: 5,031	And this is the neighbor who told us where to find Paul... BOOM!

02-04-2003, 09:36 AM	#60
The Naked Mage Veteran Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Execution State, USA Posts: 5,031	And this is where the neighbor grew up... WHA-BOOOOOOOOM! <laughs maniacally>

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