Freethought & Rationalism Archive

liquid · 07-07-2002, 09:41 AM

It is perfectly possible to light a neon light via an induction method. Although a high voltage is required, very little current is needed. If you think about, all the electricity you use has come through an induction process, when the voltage is stepped down from the local grid - there is no single physical wire connecting your house and the power station - transformers occur at several points. A good transformer is typically 98% efficient, so power loss is not a problem.

If you even hold a bulb near a 'leaking' microwave it will light up. I've put non-fluorescent Xmas tree lights in one before... I wouldn't advise it!

And then there are the outback farmers in Australia who try to 'siphon' off electricity from the powerlines by running their own lines alongside them.

So in conclusion, there is no problem with lighting signs up by induction - in a sense they all are already. A discreet transformer, perhaps hidden just off the main circuit, would not be so efficient but you could easily design one to do the job. (perhaps behind a sheet of wallpaper, with the other coil being built into one of the sockets the bulb is held in... who knows?!).

But I still think that it's probably just linked up to the mains with a hidden wire, with the apparent socket and wire being fake.

Viti · 07-07-2002, 09:52 AM

Quartz batteries are affected by electromagnetic fields...I saw many watches "broken" after being set on those security pads at retail stores (You know the ones that say "Do not set credit card here") when I worked in the jewelry store, as well as batteries that stopped when too close to some appliances like TV's and microwaves. Anyway, there may be something in the restaurant that causes a strange magnetic fluctuation (or maybe something was purposefully installed)

edited to add non-anecdotal quote

Quote:

A mechanical watch is for all practical purposes invulnerable to strong electrostatic discharges and RF electromagnetic fields. The quartz watch's CMOS logic chip and stepper drivers can be destroyed by just the right (or we should say wrong) zap

from <a href="http://www.timezone.com/Archives/TechnicalWatchPosts/quartz-info3.html" target="_blank">here</a>

[ July 07, 2002: Message edited by: LadyShea ]</p>

Bree · 07-07-2002, 05:47 PM

Thanks, LadyShea.

The restaurant is now closed - do you think there's a way to find out for sure if something was rigged to create the illusion? How does one exactly mess with an electromagnetic field? Would it be easy to detect?

The place has been broken in several times - I'm sure I could find someone to show me the way

.

[Edited to add disclaimer - I am not in any way saying or implying that I am going to go forth and do any acts that are in any way illegal.]

Viti · 07-07-2002, 06:07 PM

I don't know how one would go about rigging this....but I am sure there are some clever chess club secrets

Thor Q. Mada · 07-07-2002, 06:16 PM

Common guys,
Many people have been abducted by UFO's and aliens have performed countless (useless) medical tests on them.
Look at their testimonies.
Does this mean there is any truth in them?? Of-course not.
Even more countless people believe in God. They are prepared to die for him. Does this mean they are right?? Of-course not.
All paranormal and supernatural stuff is all bunk, and always collapses in the face of an investigation in proper.
People sometimes need their dreary lifes to be colored-up a bit, and other people suffer from mental problems inclusive but not limited to delusions.
My stomach always turns when I see Discovery Channel or even National Geographic giving-in to popular demand and airing "ghost stories".
Wake-up the death don't return, it is the living that should scare you.

Thor Q. Mada · 07-07-2002, 06:18 PM

I forgot to mention, but I live in a town where virtually EVERYBODY believs in ghosts and feng-shui, and traditional Chinese medicin, and luck, and etc.etc.

Half-Life · 07-09-2002, 08:28 AM

These are all very good objections, but what about what I wrote in my initial post? About the voice recorder? Go back and read it, that one is pretty hard to explain.

Doubting Didymus · 07-09-2002, 06:50 PM

I hate to sound skeptical

But you are getting all of your evidence from primetime American popularist television. I don't think the makers of the television show were equipped to deal with true paranormal investigation.

Some paranormal frauds have been known to have fooled even genuine scientific investigators. You need highly specific knowliege about the methods involved and at least one stage magician with you to accurately investigate the paranormal.

The stage magician could show you how simple sleight of hand could replace a blank tape for one with spooky voices, and how many simple machines can do strange things in the presence of magnets.

The day a ghost story can't be explained by a troupe of impartial magicians is when it will get my attention.

This is assuming that unsolved mysteries even wanted to look for alternative explanations, which they almost certainly don't.

Thor Q. Mada · 07-09-2002, 07:26 PM

Come-on guys, surely you must have seen David Copperfield.
You think his tricks qualify as paranormal??

Viti · 07-09-2002, 07:32 PM

Half life, same things weve been saying! A hoax, mistake, etc. Since we didn't see the tape being made and can't check it for tampering who knows??

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07-07-2002, 09:41 AM	#21
liquid Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,440	It is perfectly possible to light a neon light via an induction method. Although a high voltage is required, very little current is needed. If you think about, all the electricity you use has come through an induction process, when the voltage is stepped down from the local grid - there is no single physical wire connecting your house and the power station - transformers occur at several points. A good transformer is typically 98% efficient, so power loss is not a problem. If you even hold a bulb near a 'leaking' microwave it will light up. I've put non-fluorescent Xmas tree lights in one before... I wouldn't advise it! And then there are the outback farmers in Australia who try to 'siphon' off electricity from the powerlines by running their own lines alongside them. So in conclusion, there is no problem with lighting signs up by induction - in a sense they all are already. A discreet transformer, perhaps hidden just off the main circuit, would not be so efficient but you could easily design one to do the job. (perhaps behind a sheet of wallpaper, with the other coil being built into one of the sockets the bulb is held in... who knows?!). But I still think that it's probably just linked up to the mains with a hidden wire, with the apparent socket and wire being fake.

07-07-2002, 05:47 PM	#23
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Thanks, LadyShea. The restaurant is now closed - do you think there's a way to find out for sure if something was rigged to create the illusion? How does one exactly mess with an electromagnetic field? Would it be easy to detect? The place has been broken in several times - I'm sure I could find someone to show me the way . [Edited to add disclaimer - I am not in any way saying or implying that I am going to go forth and do any acts that are in any way illegal.]

07-07-2002, 06:07 PM	#24
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	I don't know how one would go about rigging this....but I am sure there are some clever chess club secrets

07-07-2002, 06:16 PM	#25
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Common guys, Many people have been abducted by UFO's and aliens have performed countless (useless) medical tests on them. Look at their testimonies. Does this mean there is any truth in them?? Of-course not. Even more countless people believe in God. They are prepared to die for him. Does this mean they are right?? Of-course not. All paranormal and supernatural stuff is all bunk, and always collapses in the face of an investigation in proper. People sometimes need their dreary lifes to be colored-up a bit, and other people suffer from mental problems inclusive but not limited to delusions. My stomach always turns when I see Discovery Channel or even National Geographic giving-in to popular demand and airing "ghost stories". Wake-up the death don't return, it is the living that should scare you.

07-07-2002, 06:18 PM	#26
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	I forgot to mention, but I live in a town where virtually EVERYBODY believs in ghosts and feng-shui, and traditional Chinese medicin, and luck, and etc.etc.

07-09-2002, 08:28 AM	#27
Half-Life Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A place in the Northern Hemisphere of Planet Earth Posts: 1,250	These are all very good objections, but what about what I wrote in my initial post? About the voice recorder? Go back and read it, that one is pretty hard to explain.

07-09-2002, 06:50 PM	#28
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	I hate to sound skeptical But you are getting all of your evidence from primetime American popularist television. I don't think the makers of the television show were equipped to deal with true paranormal investigation. Some paranormal frauds have been known to have fooled even genuine scientific investigators. You need highly specific knowliege about the methods involved and at least one stage magician with you to accurately investigate the paranormal. The stage magician could show you how simple sleight of hand could replace a blank tape for one with spooky voices, and how many simple machines can do strange things in the presence of magnets. The day a ghost story can't be explained by a troupe of impartial magicians is when it will get my attention. This is assuming that unsolved mysteries even wanted to look for alternative explanations, which they almost certainly don't.

07-09-2002, 07:26 PM	#29
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Come-on guys, surely you must have seen David Copperfield. You think his tricks qualify as paranormal??

07-09-2002, 07:32 PM	#30
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Half life, same things weve been saying! A hoax, mistake, etc. Since we didn't see the tape being made and can't check it for tampering who knows??

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