hinduwoman

This is a serious question.

In India American Baptists and Roman Catholics would frequently pay a large amount of money to the poor Hindus or offer them good jobs with medical benefits. So the Hindus would convert.
My question is why do they want such 'rice-christians' as they are called? These converts care nothing about the new god, or about how he rescued them from sin; I am not sure whether most of them actually believe in him. The children who convert of course understands nothing at all. Surely the missionaries know that they have converted not because the Spirit has touched them but because of filthy lucre. If the missionaries really have faith in their doctrine would not they want sincere converts?
The situation is recently made more ridiculous by activites of Hindu organizations. They would dash over to Christian homes and offer new christians money and clothes; they would reconvert back. The tactics also work for Christians whose fathers have converted but who are still poor. So obviously their faith was of no value.
There was one case where in the British time one landowner had converted to Christianity and with the help of a sympathetic magistrate got control over disputed land; he leased a portion of his land in perpetuity to the local Church. Now his grandson wants the land back and so he has reconverted to Hinduism and is in alliance with local Hindu nationalist parties.

The missionaries know all this, so why do they try to go on swelling their numbers? Sure one reason is increasing power and revenue, but most are also convinced their faith is the true one. So what gives? Or is this a case of 200 converts you get a bronze harp, 1000 converts you get a golden harp after the Last Judgement?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

cydonia

Probably. Maybe they just want to be extra sure they're going to heaven by winning converts. You never know, one of these "missionaries" may have looked at a woman in a lustful way, and didn't repent. Maybe he figures if he wins enough souls, he can still fantasize about kissing a woman he's not married to and not be barred from heaven's gates. Who knows?

I applaud people who make actual progress in improving the lives of others. It's just unfortunate that it's done for rewards from heaven. They say that character is doing what's right when no one's looking. But God's always looking, right?

Perchance

I think they probably like to pat themselves on the back. At least, that's been the goal of the people who've tried to convert me in the past (JW's and Mormons).

"I did something GOOD today! Not only that, I did something ULTIMATELY good! I saved someone's soul! Yeah!"

Or it may just be an existence they're comfortable with, since they get approval from other people.

I admit that at least some of them may really believe without the selfish motive, but it's hard for me to work my mind around anyone being that irrational.

-Perchance.

Garotte

In the case of bribery, one gets what they pay for. When the money runs out so do the followers.

I would be interested in the amounts of money. "Large sums of money" might be a rather relative term. For an untouchable laying in the streets of Calcutta, a warm meal, a blanket, a job sweeping out the mission for food, would be great wealth, compared to their peers laying in the street.

Would not their death from disease and starvation in fact be their karma, under Hinduism? Gora,(who founded Positive Atheism), fought this class stratification alongside Ghandi, in the 1940's.

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: Garotte ]</p>

GeoTheo

Assuming what you say is accurate, Most Christians would not consider them converts.

hinduwoman

Garotte, large sums of money ranges from Rs. 10,000 to 40,000. But recently they are having competition from the Islamic crowd with gulf money.

According to strict karmic Hinduism, that is the punishment for their sins. But if other Hindus want to improve their karma they must help them.

hinduwoman

Nice sentiments Geotheo, but when has that stopped the missionaries? They have been doing this for two centuries now. The sole aim for all the genrous donations they ask to do social work is motivated by conversion.
Besides who is a christian anyway? Defnitions shift depending on which group you are talking to. Recently 200 converted to Seventh Day Adventionist church. One letter in the newspaper begged us not to called the new converts christian, because the Adventionist church do not keep the Sabbath --- they are for this reason false christians.

GeoTheo

You are a person that is very prone to exaggeration. You basically just implied that paying people off has been the main M.O. for gaining Christian converts in India for two centuries. I find that extremely doubtful. I also find your website to be little more than a big long rant. It is obvious you really really resent Christian missionaries in your home country. That seems to be your main theme. I am sure Christian missionaries have not done everything perfectly in India, just like the Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists. Just like everybody else.
Hindu fundamentalists have also recently committed atrocities there against Christians and Muslims.
It may or may not be the result of atrocities committed against them. I reserve the right to say they are both wrong.

Garotte

Rs.10000 -40000 would convert to 206 to over 800 US dollars. Unless the missionary societies have been endowed by a tremendous influx from Brother Bob's begging for bucks, it would appear that Hinduwoman tends to exaggerate. One would wonder if the Hindu theocracies would even address social issues if there were not an influx of other religions, reaching out to those in the gutters.

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hinduwoman: Garotte, large sums of money ranges from Rs. 10,000 to 40,000. But recently they are having competition from the Islamic crowd with gulf money.

quote:
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Would not their death from disease and starvation in fact be their karma, under Hinduism?
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According to strict karmic Hinduism, that is the punishment for their sins. But if other Hindus want to improve their karma they must help them.

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But to help them one must violate their Karma which you say that the Hindu must do, but not THAT they are doing. If I remeber right it was the Hindus which burned a Christian missionary and his sons to death in their car:

-- Five militant Hindus have been arrested for allegedly burning to death an Australian Christian missionary and his two young sons as they slept in their vehicle early Saturday morning.

Graham Stewart Stains, 58, secretary of the New Delhi-based Evangelical Missionary Society, and his sons, Philip, 10, and Timothy, 8, died after a crowd of more than 30 people doused their vehicle with kerosene and set it ablaze outside a makeshift church in the town of Manoharpur in the eastern state of Orissa, according to police and witnesses.

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9901/23/india.christian/" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9901/23/india.christian/</a>


I see a tremendous amount of anger, hatred, and exaggeration, but very little of the humanitarian consideration for their fellow human beings, in Hinduwoman's diatribes, and in the Hindu religion in general. Left alone the Hindu theocracy would still allow the class of untouchables to die of hunger and disease in the dirty gutters of Calcutta.

Garotte

If the Hindus would stop the anger and hatred long enough to set-up social programs, to truly love and nurture their fellow human being, then maybe there would not be so many converts to other religions, if there are. I know that if I were laying in a gutter, with my belly a huggin my backbone, I would gladly follow the first person to offer me a meal.

<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/faq1111.htm#WHATISPOSATH" target="_blank">http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/faq1111.htm#WHATISPOSATH</a>

"The philosophy of Positive Atheism was begun by Gora in India. Gora founded Atheist Centre and worked to end untouchability in India. He eventually met Mahatma Gandhi and they later worked together toward India's independence, which occurred in 1947.

He also worked with India's first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, an atheist, urging him to support the formation of a secular government in the then predominantly Hindu nation of India. He later worked to establish a network of charitable organizations rivaling those in the United States, and putting to shame claims made about the allegedly wonderful work of Mother Teresa."