Freethought & Rationalism Archive

-RRH- · 09-13-2002, 11:58 PM

How far back does the term "missing link" go? Under what circumstances was it popularized? And precisely what does it mean?

Brahma's atheist · 09-14-2002, 01:23 AM

I think it must go back as far as the evolution debate started, the late 1800s. The main use of it probably came from the 'monkey-to-man' controversy. "How did we evolve from apes? Where are the missing links? BURN IN HELL YOU DEVIL!" That sort of thing. The missing link is that organism that signifies a divergance in the evolutionary path of an organism. So the point when a chimp ancestor showed the first hominid features. That individual would be the missing link,I don't think it's missing anymore because they might have found it earlier this year.
The point when a reptile showed avian features. See the Archaeoraptor incident in Natinal Geographic.
It makes sense to me but I probably didn't do a great job on it.I'm hope an evolutionary biologist comes on to clarify what I've said(I think he /she might pick it apart).

atrahasis · 09-14-2002, 02:01 AM

--No single theory can plausibly explain the origin of speech in homo sapiens.

--No single thoery has so far managed to explain the loss hair in homo sapiens.

--The gap between homo erectus and homo sapien is too small and is against darwins thoery.

The latter is explains the missing link..

If we are related to chimpazees, then why is that Chimpazees have not shown improvements in intellegence?????

Let the wise teach the mystery to wise

scigirl · 09-14-2002, 08:36 AM

Black Moses,

Huh? I think you need to go <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org" target="_blank">here</a>. For a while.

scigirl

Coragyps · 09-14-2002, 04:49 PM

I don't have any references for this, but the term "missing link" surely goes back to the days when biologists or their popularizers talked about "The Great Chain of Being." That was that sequential scale of creation, from microbe at the bottom to man at the very tip-top, that so strongly influenced evolutionary models to look like tall trees (with us on top!) rather than the messy bushes that they more realistically are.

Add to this view the paucity of hominid fossils up, really, until the Leakeys started finding them in Africa, and you can see where the public wanted to be shown a "missing" intermediate between ape and man.

Of course, the definitive treatment of "The Missing Link" is the Three Stooges episode where Curly is surnamed Link and is the lost heir to the Link fortune. Sixty-seven cents, as I recall.

(Bonus points to anyone who knows Curly's middle name in this episode.)

[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Coragyps ]

beejay · 09-14-2002, 06:12 PM

First time "missing link" used in print?

<a href="http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/missinglinks.htm" target="_blank">web page</a>

Quote:

Colin Groves:
In 1864 the great British palaeontologist Hugh Falconer wrote to a relative about a primitive-looking skull from Gibraltar, about which he and a colleague had just presented a paper at a scientific meeting:
If you hear any remarks made, you may say from me, that I do not regard this 'priscan pithecoid man' as the 'missing link', so to speak. It is a case of a very low type of humanity - very low and savage, and of extreme antiquity - but still man, and not a halfway step between man and monkey.
As far as anyone can trace, this is the first time that the phrase 'missing link' appeared in print. Trinkaus and Shipman, in their recent book on Neandertals (of which the Gibraltar skull is one), suggest that the way Falconer used the term, in a letter and putting it in quotation marks, implies that it was already in popular currency, presumably since Darwin's Origin of Species had got people discussing human origins five years earlier.

Ergaster · 09-15-2002, 05:58 AM

Were those supposed to be some sort of anti-evolutionary arguments? Or just statements of your own personal ignorance on the topic?

Anyway, they sure don't make a heckuva lot of sense as objections or anything esle.

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Moses:
--No single theory can plausibly explain the origin of speech in homo sapiens.

--No single thoery has so far managed to explain the loss hair in homo sapiens.

--The gap between homo erectus and homo sapien is too small and is against darwins thoery.

The latter is explains the missing link..

If we are related to chimpazees, then why is that Chimpazees have not shown improvements in intellegence?????

Let the wise teach the mystery to wise

MrDarwin · 09-15-2002, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Moses:
--No single theory can plausibly explain the origin of speech in homo sapiens.

Actually, there are many theories that explain it. Which theory is correct is the question.

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Moses:

--No single thoery has so far managed to explain the loss hair in homo sapiens.

Again, many theories explain it. Two examples are mutation in a small, isolated population and sexual selection. Both explain it very nicely; now, which one is correct (or if neither is correct) is the real question.

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Moses:

--The gap between homo erectus and homo sapien is too small and is against darwins thoery.

I have no idea what this means. I would think it just the opposite: a small gap illustrates very nicely the gradual (i.e., Darwinian) evolution from one species to another.

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Moses:

The latter is explains the missing link..

The latter explains nothing.

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Moses:
If we are related to chimpazees, then why is that Chimpazees have not shown improvements in intellegence?????

Maybe they have. Do you have any intelligence test results for chimpanzees from 1000 or 1,000,000 years ago? (Of course, this begs the question of why evolutionary changes in our own lineage would have any relationship to evolutionary changes in another lineage once they had split from each other, and there is no longer any genetic exchange.)

[ September 15, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]

atrahasis · 09-16-2002, 08:40 AM

Let here how guys refute this....For they are very very very good at that....

<a href="http://www.jong0402.vispa.com/sapiens.htm" target="_blank">Homo Sapiens E-Book</a>

{RA: Edited by moderator to replace material with link. See forum rule #5.}

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]

draven · 09-16-2002, 09:52 AM

I'm sure other people can address most of that post much better than I, but RE: human sexuality, I think you need to take a look at studies on Bonobo Chimpanzees. In fact you mention Jared Diamond, but you've obviously never read his work. I believe he addresses this in The Third Chimpanzee. It's been a long time since I read it though, so I may be confusing it with something else.
Chuck

09-13-2002, 11:58 PM	#1
-RRH- Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 2,047	Missing link? How far back does the term "missing link" go? Under what circumstances was it popularized? And precisely what does it mean?

09-16-2002, 08:40 AM	#9
atrahasis Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South of Sahara Posts: 216	Let here how guys refute this....For they are very very very good at that.... <a href="http://www.jong0402.vispa.com/sapiens.htm" target="_blank">Homo Sapiens E-Book</a> {RA: Edited by moderator to replace material with link. See forum rule #5.} [ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]</p>

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09-14-2002, 01:23 AM	#2
Brahma's atheist Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: (not so) United Kingdom Posts: 514	I think it must go back as far as the evolution debate started, the late 1800s. The main use of it probably came from the 'monkey-to-man' controversy. "How did we evolve from apes? Where are the missing links? BURN IN HELL YOU DEVIL!" That sort of thing. The missing link is that organism that signifies a divergance in the evolutionary path of an organism. So the point when a chimp ancestor showed the first hominid features. That individual would be the missing link,I don't think it's missing anymore because they might have found it earlier this year. The point when a reptile showed avian features. See the Archaeoraptor incident in Natinal Geographic. It makes sense to me but I probably didn't do a great job on it.I'm hope an evolutionary biologist comes on to clarify what I've said(I think he /she might pick it apart).

09-14-2002, 02:01 AM	#3
atrahasis Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South of Sahara Posts: 216	--No single theory can plausibly explain the origin of speech in homo sapiens. --No single thoery has so far managed to explain the loss hair in homo sapiens. --The gap between homo erectus and homo sapien is too small and is against darwins thoery. The latter is explains the missing link.. If we are related to chimpazees, then why is that Chimpazees have not shown improvements in intellegence????? Let the wise teach the mystery to wise

09-14-2002, 08:36 AM	#4
scigirl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,261	Black Moses, Huh? I think you need to go <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org" target="_blank">here</a>. For a while. scigirl

09-14-2002, 04:49 PM	#5
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	I don't have any references for this, but the term "missing link" surely goes back to the days when biologists or their popularizers talked about "The Great Chain of Being." That was that sequential scale of creation, from microbe at the bottom to man at the very tip-top, that so strongly influenced evolutionary models to look like tall trees (with us on top!) rather than the messy bushes that they more realistically are. Add to this view the paucity of hominid fossils up, really, until the Leakeys started finding them in Africa, and you can see where the public wanted to be shown a "missing" intermediate between ape and man. Of course, the definitive treatment of "The Missing Link" is the Three Stooges episode where Curly is surnamed Link and is the lost heir to the Link fortune. Sixty-seven cents, as I recall. (Bonus points to anyone who knows Curly's middle name in this episode.) [ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Coragyps ]</p>

09-16-2002, 09:52 AM	#10
draven Junior Member Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8	I'm sure other people can address most of that post much better than I, but RE: human sexuality, I think you need to take a look at studies on Bonobo Chimpanzees. In fact you mention Jared Diamond, but you've obviously never read his work. I believe he addresses this in The Third Chimpanzee. It's been a long time since I read it though, so I may be confusing it with something else. Chuck

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