Freethought & Rationalism Archive

KnightWhoSaysNi · 09-10-2002, 06:16 AM

The <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/Magazines/docs/v24n3_Nazis.asp" target="_blank">garbage</a> from AiG just keeps smelling worse and worse....

From Jon Sarfati:

Quote:

The Nuremberg trials of leading Nazis conclusively proved that they attempted genocide against the Jews, resulting in the Holocaust, in which some six million Jews were killed. But one senior member of the US prosecution team, General William Donovan, compiled a huge amount of documentation that the Nazis also planned to systematically destroy Christianity.

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Donovan�s documents�almost 150 bound volumes�were stored at Cornell University after his death in 1959, and are now being posted online at the Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion. This �criminal conspiracy� involved the very top Nazis, including Adolf Hitler and propaganda chief Joseph Goebbels, as well as Hitler Youth leader and Nuremberg defendant Baldur von Schirach.

These documents show that the Nazis, right from the beginning, realized that the church would have to be neutralized because of its opposition to racism and aggressive wars of conquest. So they planned to infiltrate the churches from within; defame, arrest, assault or kill pastors; reindoctrinate the congregations; and suppress denominational schools and youth organizations.

Bible-believing, evangelical churches were in the forefront of opposition, as opposed to compromising churches. Without a firm belief in the inerrancy of the Bible, liberal churches were more readily inclined to �reinterpret� Christianity to suit the ruling pro-evolution ideology, which is similar to what happens with Darwinistic �science� today.

As early as 1937, Protestant churches issued a manifesto objecting to Nazi policies, and the Nazis retaliated by arresting 700 pastors.

In an ominous parallel with current clamours by humanist and self-professed �civil liberties� groups to �keep Creation in the church� and obliterate all traces of Christianity from public life and schools, �The various Christian Churches � were confined as far as possible to the performance of narrowly religious functions, and even within this sphere were subjected to as many hindrances as the Nazis dared to impose.�

All this furthered the Nazis� aim of a �slow and cautious policy of gradual encroachment� to eliminate Christianity and use the churches� organizational structures for their own purposes.

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: Nightshade ]</p>

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 09-10-2002, 06:20 AM

Odius propoganda? From AiG? Naaaaaaaaaaawwwwwhhh....

Lizard · 09-10-2002, 09:34 AM

Well, I give them some credit. They did publish <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0830_IDM.asp" target="_blank">this.</a>

AiG Comments on the ID Movement
by Carl Wieland

I can't wait to see the big tent torn asunder by doctrinal issues within the various factions huddled under it.

Undercurrent · 09-10-2002, 10:03 AM

Quote:

These documents show that the Nazis, right from the beginning, realized that the church would have to be neutralized because of its opposition to racism and aggressive wars of conquest.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

We all know that the pope has never condoned any sort of violence, and the protestants have never said any discouraging words to the jews. Once again the churches retrocatively side with the winner.

m.

Albion · 09-10-2002, 11:03 AM

So I suppose the stuff in here

<a href="http://www.ushmm.org/bonhoeffer/b2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ushmm.org/bonhoeffer/b2.htm</a>

particularly statements like

Quote:

With Hitler's ascent to power at the end of January 1933, Bonhoeffer's church entered the most difficult phase in its history. Since its inception, the German Evangelical Church (the main Protestant church in Germany) had been shaped by nationalism and obedience to state authority. Influenced by these traditions, and relieved that a strong new leader had emerged from the chaos of the Weimar years, many Protestants welcomed the rise of Nazism.

In particular, a group called the Deutsche Christen ("German Christians") became the voice of Nazi ideology within the Evangelical Church, even advocating the removal of the Old Testament from the Bible. In the summer of 1933, citing the state Aryan laws that barred all "non-Aryans" from the civil service, the Deutsche Christen proposed a church "Aryan paragraph" to prevent "non-Aryans" from becoming ministers or religious teachers.

The ensuing controversy almost split the German Evangelical Church. Despite widespread anti-Semitism and enthusiasm for Nazism, most church leaders steadfastly supported the "Judenmission" � the evangelization, conversion and baptism of Jews. But the Deutsche Christen were already claiming that Jews, as a "separate race," could not become members of an "Aryan" German church even through baptism � a clear repudiation of the validity of Gospel teachings.

are an indication that the church had already become infiltrated? How exceedingly convenient.

In the meantime, many scientists were speaking out against the Nazis and leaving Germany rather than be forced to cooperate.

GeoTheo · 09-10-2002, 12:14 PM

Wow. I think these Guys may have a point. Just the other day I was considering getting a Charlie Chaplin moustache and taking over the government. I must chalk it up to my acceptance of evolution. It's the only thing I can put my finger on. Or maybe I wanted to be a CEO of a Mega corporation and screw the poor? Or was it that I wanted to become a Marxist? Or was it an abortionist? Boy this Darwinism is causing me go in all sorts of bad directions.

Albion · 09-10-2002, 12:48 PM

See, no wonder your church wants to kick you out!

How is that going, by the way?

GeoTheo · 09-10-2002, 01:41 PM

I don't know yet. I may leave first. Doctrinal Purity at all costs I believe is a big problem for many Fundamental Churches. But Many Evangelicals are more ecumenical and I sense would be more tolerant of differences of opinion on some matters. The Church I was attending was far to the right of Billy Graham. I suspect there are some Churches that may not take such a strong stance and still be evangelical. There are some Churches that are liberal enough to accept evolution but also may not see a problem with rejecting the resurrection either. So I am looking for a more mainstream church, but still conservative. Thanks for asking. I thought perhaps this was an odd place for me to bring this up but people have been nice.
Thanks.

RufusAtticus · 09-10-2002, 01:48 PM

GeoTheo,

If you're baptist, talk to Rev. Joshua about this. If you're pentacostal, you might try looking at the United Methodist Church because most pentacostal denominations spun off from there. If you're non-denominational, you are out of luck.

Albion · 09-10-2002, 02:41 PM

Well, being British, my first instinct would be to suggest you look at some of the evangelical episcopal congregations. There's such a broad range of views in the Anglican communion that I should think some of the conservative congregations would reject the more liberal attitudes toward the virgin birth and the resurrection while being sane where science was concerned.

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09-10-2002, 06:20 AM	#2
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	Odius propoganda? From AiG? Naaaaaaaaaaawwwwwhhh....

09-10-2002, 09:34 AM	#3
Lizard Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 169	Well, I give them some credit. They did publish <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0830_IDM.asp" target="_blank">this.</a> AiG Comments on the ID Movement by Carl Wieland I can't wait to see the big tent torn asunder by doctrinal issues within the various factions huddled under it.

09-10-2002, 12:14 PM	#6
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Wow. I think these Guys may have a point. Just the other day I was considering getting a Charlie Chaplin moustache and taking over the government. I must chalk it up to my acceptance of evolution. It's the only thing I can put my finger on. Or maybe I wanted to be a CEO of a Mega corporation and screw the poor? Or was it that I wanted to become a Marxist? Or was it an abortionist? Boy this Darwinism is causing me go in all sorts of bad directions.

09-10-2002, 12:48 PM	#7
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	See, no wonder your church wants to kick you out! How is that going, by the way?

09-10-2002, 01:41 PM	#8
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	I don't know yet. I may leave first. Doctrinal Purity at all costs I believe is a big problem for many Fundamental Churches. But Many Evangelicals are more ecumenical and I sense would be more tolerant of differences of opinion on some matters. The Church I was attending was far to the right of Billy Graham. I suspect there are some Churches that may not take such a strong stance and still be evangelical. There are some Churches that are liberal enough to accept evolution but also may not see a problem with rejecting the resurrection either. So I am looking for a more mainstream church, but still conservative. Thanks for asking. I thought perhaps this was an odd place for me to bring this up but people have been nice. Thanks.

09-10-2002, 01:48 PM	#9
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	GeoTheo, If you're baptist, talk to Rev. Joshua about this. If you're pentacostal, you might try looking at the United Methodist Church because most pentacostal denominations spun off from there. If you're non-denominational, you are out of luck.

09-10-2002, 02:41 PM	#10
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Well, being British, my first instinct would be to suggest you look at some of the evangelical episcopal congregations. There's such a broad range of views in the Anglican communion that I should think some of the conservative congregations would reject the more liberal attitudes toward the virgin birth and the resurrection while being sane where science was concerned.

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