John Page

Well, in the sense that mental activity can ultimately cause a multitude of other activity such as motor cars, thoughts, pens, synaptic activity I'm not sure why there is an issue here.

I also don't see how the interaction of quantum activity and mental activity causes "free will" (in its libertarian ) sense.

Quantum activity seems to exhibit itself whether mentally observed or not. The fact that we can perform quantum experiments with reliable results that are taken and stored before they are later analyzed by the minds of man argues against your hypothesis.

I think you're confusing the measurement issue with the observation/interpretation issue.

Cheers, John

Nowhere357

My only issue is that I have direct experience of will, and I wish to reconcile that with the deterministic worldview.

I don't, either. I suspect the cause/effect arrow becomes confused at the "mental activity" level, and I try to word things to avoid that confusion.

This is a valid point, of course. I suspect - but am not ready to defend - that there is an "atom" of will, or awareness, that exists in matter itself. These "atoms" combine and then arise from life-forms.

I'm sure that sounds out-there, and I have no idea what I'm talking about. But hell, I'm just exploring.

I accept that the observation/interpretation issue does not actually indicate that a conscious mind is necessary for the resolution of quantum effects.

BTW I've been spending a lot of time at the Theology Web, and after another huge dose of hate and ignorance, it's a tangible relief to come home to the Secular Web!

Free will is alive and well. (This is becoming my tagline on relevant threads, because it motivates me to learn, learn, learn.)