GeoTheo

I actually expirimented with being an atheist.
You infidels actually brought me back to reality.
I was a bonifide atheist for about 24 hours. Then I said to my self. Do I think Christians are a bunch of assholes now? The answer was a resounding No. So then I asked myself. Which is more likely- The infidels are largely anti-Christian because they are atheists or are they atheists as a result of being anti Christian?
I decided it was the later. I also noticed that my conscience remained the same and that it impelled me to make the same types of moral choices I made as a Christian. My conscience has always been aligned with the teachings of Christianity and actually predates my knowledge of the teachings of Christianity, even though I also can identify parts or forces within me that cause me to somtimes want to go against it. I then realized that I would now be faced with a choice of whether to follow my conscience or not.
If I follow my concience I will be living more or less acording to Biblical morality. But it will not be based on a belief that this conscience comes from God. Does my moral code seem to reflect that of the infidels for the most part?
I answered no.
I then asked myself which is more likely- infidels have no conscience or they do and go against it. I would say they go against it. Which is more likely They go against their consciences because they are atheists or they are atheists because they go against their conciences.
I answerd that the later is most likely.
My concience is somthing, as I look over my life, has caused me to reflect on the existence of God.
I have no reason to believe this principle does not operate this way in others.
So in order to be an atheist I would have to choose to go against my consience.
Do not think I am unaware you atheists probably have all sorts of rationalizations that the concience is subjective and entirely a product of social conditioning. How could you not?
This has never been my experience. From an early age I have had the same moral code and it has always been different and more "traditional" or "conservative" or whatever word you want to use than that of my parents or childhood teachers and even that of the liberal Clergy I was raised with.

Brian63

What about atheists that are not anti-Christian? How are they accounted for in this mental exercise? It seems your entire post was premised on the notion that an atheist is anti-Christian. Yes, I see that you said "LARGELY anti-Christian" and not "ALL anti-Christian," but my question is how you would account for those exceptions.

Brian

Novowels

No, you experimented with the Christian straw man of atheism, IE "denial that God exists."

Atheism is simply lacking the belief in a god(s).

The Other Michael

GeoTheo,

For the sake of discussion I'll presume that you are a basically good person - only the bare minimum of looting/pillaging/raping in your background (just like all the other basically good people in the world).

You might consider whether a part of your "Christian morals" that seem to align with your being a good person are just common sense ways of getting along with people, and have been fairly apparent to good people (religious or not) for millenia prior to Christianity, Judaism, etc.

And you might consider whether you share some of those good person traits with other religions that predate yours.

And you might consider all the good people in other religions that reject your religion because they know it is wrong (after all, that's what they learned at Mommy's knee, just as you probably did about their religions), but still remain good people in spite of that.

And then you might consider that there are atheists who've probably put a lot more thought into rejecting the claims of Christianity than you have in accepting them (and some of them are even former Christian ministers), and atheists on average are under-represented in prison populations (usually a place where you find bad people).

And then you might consider just how silly your OP sounds.

cheers,
Michael

Hobbs

How in the world does one go about experimenting with atheism? Can you experiment with believing, I mean really actually truly believing, that leprechauns exist? You can experiment with examining evidence for and against a belief, or following logical consequences as best you can determine them, but how can you experiment with actually having a belief? I'm very confused by what you mean here, and I think my confusion is a result of your being very confused by what you mean.

Well, I certainly don't think all Christians are assholes, or even any where near most of them. Most of the ones I know are good people. Just like most Muslims, Buddhists, and atheists I know. A few of all of the above are assholes, but their assholeness is usually independent of their religious beliefs.

Does that mean I'm not really an atheist?

I'm not at all anti-Christian. I'm anti-Christianity, in the same sense that I am anti-geocentrism: I think the various forms of Christianity are false claims about reality, just as I think that the claim that Earth is at the center of the universe is a false claim. I don't think Christians or geocentrists are assholes because they are wrong, I just think that they are people who are wrong about this particular matter in question. (If some of them are assholes, it is because of other factors, perhaps the same factors that make some atheists assholes.)

You mean, you are pro-slavery? You certainly won't win any points with me by admitting that. (Or, do the teachings of Christianity not align with the teachings of the Bible?)

You mean, since I don't go against my conscience, I'm not an "infidel"? (I'm assuming you are equating 'infidel' with 'atheist' here.)

Conscience, if you mean by that a sense of morality, had and has little to do, and nothing essential to do, with my reflections on the existence or lack thereof of God. The question of whether God exists is a matter of empirical fact. It would be true or false regardless of my, or anyone else's, moral outlook on life. Once the truth or falsity of the claim of God's existence is determined (or at least estimated), that fact may or may not impinge on some questions of morality (and it would leave the vast majority of those questions untouched). But the question of whether God exists is independent of any moral claims, and prior to those few moral claims on which the question of God's existence has any pertinence.

Perhaps some think it is entirely a product of social conditioning, but I suspect they are in the minority, and I believe they are wrong. I think the evidence is pretty conclusive that, as products of brains that are themselves products of evolution, the parameters within which our consciences can effectively operate have been set by objective factors of evolution. (Some things really are beneficial or harmful to us, regardless of our preferences or wishes.) Social conditioning can work effectively only within those parameters.

You mean your moral code has not improved from when you were a child? I feel sorry for those who must deal with you on a daily basis.

Clergy? Were they not Christians? Were they infidel atheists? Have you not seen conservative atheists on these boards? (If not, check out the Political Discussions forum.) Since many theists are liberal and nontraditional and many atheists are conservative, what does being more "traditional" or "conservative" have to do with whether God exists, or with the failure of your oddly structured "experiment with atheism"?

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Hobbs ]</p>

Liquidrage

I experimented with LSD a few dozen times.

Sheep in the big city

You will sacrifice innocent sheep to your God?
I object!
Could you sum up the basic concepts of the infidel moral code for us.
I thought all this time I was an infidel and did not even adhere to the infidel code!! Ooohh why, why!? What have I done. Please tell me this doesn't mean that when I die I will not cease to exist? Help, help what can I do now?
Or can I just not follow The Code and still have been a good infidel by proclaiming my infidelism seconds before I die?

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Sheep in the big city ]</p>

Eudaimonist

Wyz_sub10

This is just another one of your rants where you project your own feelings and experiences onto everyone else.

It is much more a diary entry than a meaningful statement for discussion.

Daggah

Anyone else getting RRP vibes here?

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Daggah ]</p>