Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Polar Bear · 06-29-2002, 05:16 PM

<a href="http://slate.msn.com/?id=2067499" target="_blank">http://slate.msn.com/?id=2067499</A>

Finally, someone is making sense in a mainstream forum!

But I bet this writer will be deluged with angry complaints from the ignorant public and castigated by his fellow "journalists."

The Other Michael · 06-29-2002, 06:47 PM

<a href="http://www.salon.com" target="_blank">www.salon.com</a> has four or five articles that sound pro-9th Circuit, but you've got to be a paid subscriber to read all of the articles so I can't say just how positive they truly are.

cheers,
Michael

hezekiah jones · 06-29-2002, 07:12 PM

Good slate article, thanks for the link.

I really hope this case goes to the Supreme Court. Given the circumstances surrounding the introduction of "under God," it would be hugely entertaining to see Scalia try to apply his ludicrously narrow rendition of textualism and ignore what apparently was a festival of sanctimonious posturing in Congress.

enemigo · 06-29-2002, 07:30 PM

Good article.. I noticed this in there...

Quote:

After the Civil War, for example, some clergymen argued that the war's carnage was divine retribution for the founders' refusal to declare the United States a Christian nation, and tried to amend the Constitution to do so.

I was wondering if anyone could point me to more information regarding this attempted amendment.

Thank you,

richard

hezekiah jones · 06-29-2002, 07:46 PM

Here is a whole load of them:

<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~candst/1888-49.htm" target="_blank">Religious Measures in Congress 1888 - 1949</a>

The proposed amendment in question was from 1894, I believe.

My pocket Constitution says, "Acknowledging that the Constitution recognize God and Jesus Christ as the supreme authorities in human affairs."

**shudder**

Buffman · 06-29-2002, 07:52 PM

The first, and only, article I have read that accurately places the issue in the context of American history.

I started to read the responses. The emotional divisiveness was alarming and can be laid right at the feet of our current leadership of the Administration, Congress and the Judiciary. That is a very sobering and frightening reality. We have become a citizenry no longer able to discern fact from fiction...and the Voucher decision will only exascerbate that situation.

enemigo · 06-29-2002, 08:25 PM

thank you hezekiah.

richard

sandlewood · 06-30-2002, 12:28 AM

Thanks for the link.

I noted this part about Engle v. Vitale and JFK�s response:

Quote:

When asked about the unpopular decision, President John F. Kennedy replied coolly that he knew many people were angry, but that the decisions of the court had to be respected. He added that there was "a very easy remedy"�not a constitutional amendment but a renewed commitment by Americans to pray at home, in their churches, and with their families.

Handled in a presidential manner.

But all Dubya had to say about the PoA ruling was that it was �ridiculous�, and he said that even before reading the ruling. The Senators just said it was �stupid� and started raving about writing an amendment.

Where are all the great leaders such as those we used to have?

Buffman · 06-30-2002, 12:57 AM

Folks

Jim Allison has labored mightily, primarily by himself and at his own expense, to produce this outstanding Church-State reference source. I have been listing if since first entering these forums. It continues to be the most accurate source of information and fact I have found.

<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html" target="_blank">http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html</a>

Zippy · 07-01-2002, 03:44 AM

Have you seen the comments in the discussion section?

Take this choice quote (which is fairly representative): "I am a deist; personally I don't care if someone is an atheist but I feel they should just shut up ... they are in the minority so let them stay silent and leave the rest of the God-fearing people have THEIR say."

These people are monsters.

06-29-2002, 05:16 PM	#1
Polar Bear Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 66	EXCELLENT article on slate.msn.com! <a href="http://slate.msn.com/?id=2067499" target="_blank">http://slate.msn.com/?id=2067499</A> Finally, someone is making sense in a mainstream forum! But I bet this writer will be deluged with angry complaints from the ignorant public and castigated by his fellow "journalists."

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06-29-2002, 06:47 PM	#2
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	<a href="http://www.salon.com" target="_blank">www.salon.com</a> has four or five articles that sound pro-9th Circuit, but you've got to be a paid subscriber to read all of the articles so I can't say just how positive they truly are. cheers, Michael

06-29-2002, 07:12 PM	#3
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Good slate article, thanks for the link. I really hope this case goes to the Supreme Court. Given the circumstances surrounding the introduction of "under God," it would be hugely entertaining to see Scalia try to apply his ludicrously narrow rendition of textualism and ignore what apparently was a festival of sanctimonious posturing in Congress.

06-29-2002, 07:46 PM	#5
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Here is a whole load of them: <a href="http://members.tripod.com/~candst/1888-49.htm" target="_blank">Religious Measures in Congress 1888 - 1949</a> The proposed amendment in question was from 1894, I believe. My pocket Constitution says, "Acknowledging that the Constitution recognize God and Jesus Christ as the supreme authorities in human affairs." shudder

06-29-2002, 07:52 PM	#6
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	The first, and only, article I have read that accurately places the issue in the context of American history. I started to read the responses. The emotional divisiveness was alarming and can be laid right at the feet of our current leadership of the Administration, Congress and the Judiciary. That is a very sobering and frightening reality. We have become a citizenry no longer able to discern fact from fiction...and the Voucher decision will only exascerbate that situation.

06-29-2002, 08:25 PM	#7
enemigo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: atlanta, ga Posts: 691	thank you hezekiah. richard

06-30-2002, 12:57 AM	#9
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	Folks Jim Allison has labored mightily, primarily by himself and at his own expense, to produce this outstanding Church-State reference source. I have been listing if since first entering these forums. It continues to be the most accurate source of information and fact I have found. <a href="http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html" target="_blank">http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html</a>

07-01-2002, 03:44 AM	#10
Zippy Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: England Posts: 115	Have you seen the comments in the discussion section? Take this choice quote (which is fairly representative): "I am a deist; personally I don't care if someone is an atheist but I feel they should just shut up ... they are in the minority so let them stay silent and leave the rest of the God-fearing people have THEIR say." These people are monsters.

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