Oolon Colluphid

Yeah, I know what the units are, thanks. But what sort of energy? Sure, energy can't be created or destroyed, only converted. But in what form does this alleged energy 'arrive' in order to manifest its (biochemical? mechanical?) effects?
In other words, we don't. Which is why I guess you didn't answer the question.

It is my contention that most people don't have their time of first breath recorded with that accuracy. This is quite simply because birth is a process -- top of head, more of head, head out, long pause while stuck at the shoulders, final push, lots of wiping, cutting the cord... and at some point someone looks at a clock. I suspect that midwives wouldn't bother wiping and checking airways while only the head is out if it didn't matter, yet I also suspect that most people don't consider the baby 'born' till the shoulders are out and there's that final slither. Just who is noting the baby's first breath during all that to a four-minute accuracy. And if the kiddie ain't breathing -- an easier way to tell when it starts -- there's more important things to do than check the time.

Therefore the time that is fed into the chart is likely suspect.
Oh what nonsense! It needs far more than that, because the matching of personality to chart, as we've seen, is not exactly a precise science.

And anyway, science deals with refutation as well as confirmation. With all this interpretation going on and confounding variables, just how is your proposed scheme potentially refutable? I humbly suggest it is not, and is therefore not science.
Sure. And therefore your claims are irrefutable pseudoscience. For all you have to say to dismiss any contrary evidence is that the time of first breath (heretoafter TOFB) isn't quite right.
That's nice. But, no, sorry, the question was, what counts as first breath? Some small spasmodic trickle of air while the baby's only head-out, the first time air gets into the lungs on its own, or with help... what? And who the hell's taking note of the time of that?
No, it's not evident. It's subject to countless confounding factors and human interpretation. Human interpretation of personality, no less!

I suggest you have a word with pz in E/C about where personality comes from. We know genes have an influence; we know the cultural environment does too. And yet unravelling the lines of influence even among those knowns is... problematic, shall we say.

Even if there were any influence from planetary angles, how the hell would we tell them apart from genetic and cultural -- ie real -- ones? Hence needing to come at it from the other end, and to know more about the alleged mechanism. Which you can't seem to be precise on.

What you've got there is an unknown mechanism (these 'energies') having unknown effects at birth to produce highly debatable effects some years later. What you've got there, Volker, is a pseudoscience.
Yup. Like I said, pseudo-science. Unverifiable contra-real-science blather, cloaked in scientific-sounding language in order to purloin some of science's respectability.

Name that energy.

TTFN, Oolon

Volker.Doormann

You are on my ignore list

EOD

Secular Pinoy

LOL, Volker's on an ignoring spree! Whoever said, "There are none so blind as those who will not see"?

Volker.Doormann

"Kabir, the faithless cynic is like a piece of garlic.
Even if you eat it sitting in a corner, it becomes obvious to everyone. "

"The night you passed in sleep
And the day in visiting your false friends;
Alas! Thus have you wasted
The diamond of your life on naught.
You will die one day, perhaps tomorrow;
Grass will grow on your tomb,
And your friends will forget you.
Therefore know your soul soon.
Whom will the son of a harlot call his father?
Worship God in your being
And do not waste your life.
Your body is like a jar of unbaked clay;
It may break to pieces any moment and all will be over,
Nowhere is there delight except in God.
This world is a house made of wood,
And, lo! it is burning furiously;
He who stays in it dies.
The Yogi withdraws from it in meditation and he is saved.
Thy birth as man is a ripe fruit which is seen only once;
Make the most of the practice of devotion and compassion
And the acquisition of true Knowledge.
O Kabir, there is a way out of this illusory world:
Know the soul at any cost."

"Too much talk leads to chaos
Yet without talk how does one discuss
If you must; then talk with saints
With devils it is better to stay mum
Blessing it is to talk with the wise
Talking with stupid is waste of time
Says Kabir,
Half full is forever swaying
The fulfilled prefers staying calm"

Lobstrosity

What discussion? The second anyone dares challenge you you shove your fingers in your ears and shout LALALALA at the top of your lungs, metaphorically speaking.

Oolon Colluphid

[I]t is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

(Macbeth, Act 5 Scene V)

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

(Douglas Adams)

I wish to propose for the reader's favourable consideration a doctrine which may, I fear, appear wildly paradoxical and subversive. The doctrine in question is this: that it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true.

(Bertrand Russell)

A touchstone to determine the actual worth of an "intellectual" -- find out how he feels about astrology.

(Robert Heinlein)

Well what a fucking waste of time that was then.

Do you normally ignore everyone who disagrees with you? No wonder you can maintain your faith!
Um, ‘erat obstinatus demonstrandum’?

Oh I see, ‘end of discussion’. Yes, I do believe it is. Mods: time to close this one, I guess <shrug>.

TTFN, Oolon

Lobstrosity

That certainly seems to be the trend. And with that said, I expect notification of my pending ignoration any time now.

Oolon Colluphid

And who are we to argue?

Oolon

ps418

Remember, you're attempting a rational discussion with someone who thinks that clumps of gas and rock millions of kilometers away exert some powerful influence on human personality. What did you expect?

Welcome to Volker's ignore list, Oolon. You can sit right over there, between Facts and Ps418.

Patrick

echidna

Volker's astrology is nothing more than shotgunning, plain and simple.

Fire out 50 statements worded as loosely as possible, and chances are a few of them will stick, especially given the Forer Effect. Shock and awe, whoda thunk that ? Unfortunately not so impressive to the less gullible.

Even with the myriad of vague and deliberately ambiguous terminology he uses, his statements are still spectacularly inaccurate. Put it all together and little wonder that believers are only those desperate to believe, foresaking common sense in the process.

Hey astrology is fun & it always makes a good laugh point, but Volker, don't try and kid anyone that it's anything to be taken seriously. Wanna take a punt at my star sign, Volker ?