sighhswolf

In another thread the practices of Mormonism were
being discussed, after giving my own opinion of the LDS organization and the long range goals of the General Authorities with regard to world conquest in the name of god, the question of what is the big deal about food storage came up after I indicated that I felt the motivations behind the practice showed the true aim of the church and was part of the long range goal of LDS to assume world domination. I also pointed out that the members were frightened into this practice, scare tactics to assure compliance.

Now whether anyone believes the prophecy of the church and the revelation from god that the world economy will collapse leading to anarchy, leaving the LDS organization free to assume world control as the New Zion and pretty much giving them (through prior planning and the doctrine of food storage and church run farms)a monopoly on food supplies and fresh water supplies doesnt really matter at this point. It remains a fact that the doctrines of the church include specific plans to
assume power and create a single new and powerful world government with LDS as the brokers, and establishing Salt Lake City as the center of one world government.
The tactics used to promote this agenda include the statement that the only safe place will be under the wing of LDS authorities. And that they alone will hold the keys to the new kingdom of god on earth, and anyone who doesnt convert will very likely not survive the strife and chaos.

Even in the Atheist/Agnostic community there are those who question my sanity when I talk about these events and the quest for power within the LDS doctrines.
We must never dismiss the power of religion on the minds of gullible followers.
Even if the conspiracy of power seems to be a paranoid position, we should not forget what motivates fanatics in any religion.

To help those who do not understand Mormonism I offer the following for your information: from a talk given by Ezra Taft Benson Elder and president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, February 26,1980.

FOURTEEN FUNDAMENTALS IN FOLLOWING THE PROPHET
BY
ELDER Ezra Taft Benson
February 26, 1980


"My beloved brothers and sisters, I am honored to be in your presence today. You students are a part of a choice young generation--a generation which might well witness the return of our Lord. Not only is the Church growing in numbers today, it is growing in faithfulness and, even more important, our young generation, as a group, is even more faithful than the older generation. God has reserved you for the eleventh hour--the great and dreadful day of the Lord. It will be your responsibility not only to help bear off the kingdom of God triumphantly but to save your own soul and strive to save those of your family and to honor the principles of our inspired constitution.

To help you pass the crucial tests which lie ahead I am going to give you today several facets of a grand key which, if you will honor them, will crown you with God's glory and bring you out victorious in spite of Satan's fury. Soon we will be honoring our prophet on his eighty-fifth birthday. As a Church we sing the song, "We Thank Thee, O God, For a Prophet." Here then is the grand key: follow the prophet. And here now are fourteen fundamentals in following the prophet, the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.

In section 132, verse 7, of the Doctrine and Covenants the Lord speaks of the Prophet--the President--and says: "There is never but one on the earth at a time on whom his power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred." Then in section 21, verses 4-6, the Lord states:

Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;

For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.

For by doing these things the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Did you hear what the Lord said about the words of the prophet? We are to "give heed unto all his words"--as if from the Lord's "own mouth."

Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.

President Wilford Woodruff tells of an interesting incident that occurred in the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith:

I will refer to a certain meeting I attended in the town of Kirtiand in my early days. At that meeting some remarks were made that have been made here today, with regard to the living oracles and with regard to the written word of God. The same principle was presented, although not as extensively as it has been here, when a leading man in the Church got up and talked upon the subject, and said: "You have got the word of God before you here in the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants; you have the written word of God, and you who give revelations should give revelations according to those books, as what is written in those books is the word of God. We should confine ourselves to them."

When he concluded, Brother Joseph turned to Brother Brigham Young and said, "Brother Brigham, I want you to take the stand and tell us your views with regard to the living oracles and the written word of God." Brother Brigham took the stand, and he took the Bible, and laid it down; he took the Book of Mormon, and laid it down; and he took the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and laid it down before him, and he said: "There is the written word of God to us, concerning the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now," said he, "when compared with the living oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books." That was the course he pursued. When he was through, Brother Joseph said to the congregation: "Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth." [in Conference Report, October 1897, pp. 18-19)

Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

The living prophet has the power of TNT. By that I mean "Todays News Today." God's revelations to Adam did not instruct Noah how to build the ark. Noah needed his own revelation. Therefore, the most important prophet, so far as you and I are concerned, is the one living in our day and age to whom the Lord is currently revealing His will for us. Therefore, the most important reading we can do is any of the words of the prophet contained each week in the Church Section of the Deseret News, and any words of the prophet contained each month in our Church magazines. Our marching orders for each six months are found in the general conference addresses, which are printed in the Ensign magazine.

I am so grateful that the current conference report is studied as part of one of your religion classes--the course entitied "Teachings of the Living Prophets," number 333. May I commend that class to you, and suggest that you get a copy of the class manual at your bookstore, whether you're able to take the class or not. The manual is entitled "Living Prophets for a Living Church."

Beware of those who would pit the dead prophets against the living prophets, for the living prophets always take precedence.

Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "I say to Israel, The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of the Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God." (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, selected by G. Homer Durham [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1946], pp. 212-213.)

President Marion G. Romney tells of this incident, which happened to him:

I remember years ago when I was a Bishop I had President [Heber J.] Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting I drove him home....Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: "My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it." Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, "But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray." [In Conference Report, October 1), p. 78]

Fifth: The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.

Sometimes there are those who feel their earthly knowledge on a certain subject is superior to the heavenly knowledge which God gives to His prophet on the same subject. They feel the prophet must have the same earthly credentials or training which they have had before they will accept anything the prophet has to say that might contradict their earthly schooling. How much earthly schooling did Joseph Smith have? Yet he gave revelations on all kinds of subjects. We haven't yet had a prophet who earned a doctorate in any subject, but as someone said, "A prophet may not have his Ph.D. but he certainly has his LDS." We encourage earthly knowledge in many areas, but remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet, and you'll be blessed and time will vindicate you.

Sixth: The prophet does not have to say "Thus saith the Lord" to give us scripture.

Sometimes there are those who haggle over words. They might say the prophet gave us counsel, but that we are not obligated to follow it unless he says it is a commandment. But the Lord says of the Prophet Joseph, "Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you" (D&C 21:4).

And speaking of taking counsel from the prophet, in D&C 108:1, the Lord states: "Verily thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Lyman: Your sins are forgiven you, because you have obeyed my voice in coming up hither this morning to receive counsel of him whom I have appointed".

Said Brigham Young, "I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture" (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot], 13:95).

Seventh: The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.

"Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear," complained Nephi's brethren. But Nephi answered by saying, "the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center" (1 Nephi 16:1, 3). Or, to put it in another prophet's words, "Hit pigeons flutter."

Said President Harold B. Lee:

You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life.... Your safety and ours depends upon whether or not we follow.... Let's keep our eye on the President of the Church. [in Conference Report, October 1970, p. 152-153)

But it is the living prophet who really upsets the world. "Even in the Church," said President Kimball, "many are prone to garnish the sepulchres of yesterday's prophets and mentally stone the living ones" (Instructor, 95:257).

Why? Because the living prophet gets at what we need to know now, and the world prefers that prophets either be dead or mind their own business. Some so-called experts of political science want the prophet to keep still on politics. Some would-be authorities on evolution want the prophet to keep still on evolution. And so the list goes on and on.

How we respond to the words of a living prophet when he tells us what we need to know, but would rather not hear, is a test of our faithfulness.

Said President Marion G. Romney, "It is an easy thing to believe in the dead prophets." And then he gives this illustration:

One day when President Grant was living, I sat in my office across the street following a general conference. A man came over to see me, an elderly man. He was very upset about what had been said in this conference by some of the Brethren, including myself. I could tell from his speech that he came from a foreign land. After I had quieted him enough so he would listen, I said, "Why did you come to America?" "I am here because a prophet of God told me to come." "Who was the prophet;" I continued. "Wilford Woodruff." "Do you believe Wilford Woodruff was a prophet of God?" "Yes, I do." "Do you believe that President Joseph F. Smith was a prophet of God?" "Yes, sir."

Then came the sixty-four dollar question. "Do you believe that Heber J. Grant is a prophet of God?" His answer, "I think he ought to keep his mouth shut about old age assistance."

Now I tell you that a man in his position is on the way to apostasy. He is forfeiting his chances for eternal life. So is everyone who cannot follow the living Prophet of God." [in Conference Report, April 1953, p. 125]

Eighth: The prophet is not limited by men's reasoning. There will be times when you will have to choose between the revelations of God and the reasoning of men--between the prophet and the politician or professor. Said the Prophet Joseph Smith, "Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof until long after the events transpire" (Scrapbook of Mormon Literature, vol. 2, p. 173).

Would it seem reasonable to an eye doctor to be told to heal a blind man by spitting in the dirt, making clay, and applying it to the man's eyes and then telling him to wash in a contaminated pool? Yet this is precisely the course that Jesus took with one man, and he was healed. (See John 9:6-7.) Does it seem reasonable to cure leprosy by telling a man to wash seven times in a particular river? Yet this is precisely what the prophet Elisha told a leper to do, and he was healed. (See 2 Kings 5.)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. [Isaiah 55:8,9]

Ninth: The prophet can receive revelation on any matter--temporal or spiritual.

Said Brigham Young:

Some of the leading men in Kirtland were much opposed to Joseph the Prophet, meddling with temporal affairs... .

In a public meeting of the Saints, I said, "Ye Elders of Israel.... will some of you draw the line of demarcation, between the spiritual and temporal in the Kingdom of God, so that I may understand it?" Not one of them could do it....

I defy any man on earth to point out the path a Prophet of God should walk in, or point out his duty, and just how far he must go, in dictating temporal or spiritual things. Temporal and spiritual things are inseparably connected, and ever will be. [Journal of Discourses, 10:363-364]

Tenth: The prophet may be involved in civic matters.

When a people are righteous they want the best to lead them in government. Alma was the head of the Church and of the government in the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith was mayor of Nauvoo, and Brigham Young was governor of Utah. Isaiah was deeply involved in giving counsel on political matters and of his words the Lord Himself said, "Great are the words of Isaiah" (3 Nephi 23:1). Those who would remove prophets from politics would take God out of government.

Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

The learned may feel the prophet is only inspired when he agrees with them; otherwise, the prophet is just giving his opinion--speaking as a man. The rich may feel they have no need to take counsel of a lowly prophet.

In the Book of Mormon we read:

O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.

But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.

And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches--yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them. [2 Nephi 9:28,29,42]

Twelfth: The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.

As a prophet reveals the truth it divides the people. The honest in heart heed his words, but the unrighteous either ignore the prophet or fight him. When the prophet points out the sins of the world, the worldly either want to close the mouth of the prophet, or else act as if the prophet didn't exist, rather than repent of their sins. Popularity is never a test of truth. Many a prophet has been killed or cast out.

As we come closer to the Lord's second coming, you can expect that as the people of the world become more wicked, the prophet will be less popular with them.

Thirteenth: The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency--the highest quorum in the Church.

In the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord refers to the First Presidency as "the highest council of the Church" (107:80) and says, "whosoever receiveth me, receiveth those....the First Presidency, whom I have sent" (112:20).

Fourteenth: The prophet and the presidency--the living prophet and the First Presidency--follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer.

President Harold B. Lee relates this incident from Church history:

The story is told in the early days of the Church--particularly, I think, at Kirtland--where some of the leading brethren in the presiding councils of the Church met secretly and tried to scheme as to how they could get rid of the Prophet Joseph's leadership. They made the mistake of inviting Brigham Young to one of these secret meetings. He rebuked them, after he had heard the purpose of their meeting. This is part of what he said: "You cannot destroy the appointment of a prophet of God, but you can cut the thread that binds you to the prophet of God and sink yourselves to hell." [In Conference Report, April 1963, p. 81]

In a general conference of the Church President N. Eldon Tanner stated:

The Prophet spoke out clearly on Friday moming, telling us what our responsibilities are... .

A man said to me after that, "You know, there are people in our state who believe in following the Prophet in everything they think is right, but when it is something they think isn't right, and it doesn't appeal to them, then that's different." He said, "Then they become their own prophet. They decide what the Lord wants and what the Lord doesn't want."

I thought how true, and how serious when we begin to choose which of the covenants, which of the commandments we will keep and follow. When we decide that there are some of them that we will not keep or follow, we are taking the law of the Lord into our own hands and become our own prophets, and believe me, we will be led astray, because we are false prophets to ourselves when we do not to follow the Prophet of God. No, we should never discriminate between these commandments, as to those we should and should not keep. [In Conference Report, October 1966, p. 98]

"Look to the Presidency and receive instruction," said the Prophet Joseph Smith (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected by Joseph Fielding Smith [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1938], p. 161). But Almon Babbitt didn't, and in the Doctrine and Covenants section 124, verse 84, the Lord states:

And with my servant Almon Babbitt, there are many things with which I am not pleased; behold, he aspireth to establish his counsel instead of the counsel which I have ordained, even that of the Presidency of my Church.

In conclusion, let us summarize this grand key, these "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet," for our salvation hangs on them.

First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.

Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.

Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.

Fifth: The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.

Sixth: The prophet does not have to say "Thus saith the Lord" to give us scripture.

Seventh: The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.

Eighth: The prophet is not limited by men's reasoning.

Ninth: The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.

Tenth: The prophet may be involved in civic matters.

Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

Twelfth: The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.

Thirteenth: The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency--the highest quorum in the Church.

Fourteenth: The prophet and the presidency--the living prophet and the First Presidency--follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. if we want to know how well we stand with the Lord, then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain. How closely do our lives harmonize with the words of the Lord's anointed--the living prophet, the President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency?

May God bless us all to look to the prophet and the presidency in the critical and crucial days ahead, is my prayer. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen."

This lecture was copied from an ex-mormon free thinker's site.
The reality is clear and set in stone, as an LDS
member you must obey the words of the prophet, there is no choice in the matter.
Personally, I dont think it is wise to dismiss
anything doctrinally that comes from the presidency of the Mormon church.

I was called an alarmist, a paranoid personality
intent on destroying the image of the church.
Yet, it is plain that the roles of membership in the LDS organization continue to expand at a very rapid rate. It is well we remember the history
of our species and what happens when one man/woman
is given absolute power over many followers.


Now the really important part of the speach above is contained in the 14th condition.
"follow them and be blessed, reject them and suffer."

Absolute power, absolute obedience, and intimidation through threats of ruination.

Now another part of the puzzle of Mormonism is the bigoted and gender biased views of the General Authorities.
In the previous post, I made reference to the discriminatory practices within the Priesthood,
and stated that certain segments of the population based on race and gender cannot hold the priesthood, or positions of responsibility within the administrative sections of the church.
I offer the next section of text as an example of the views of the early church.


Race Problems -- As They Affect The Church
Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level,
Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.

"God has commanded Israel not to intermarry. To go against this commandment of God would be in sin. Those who willfully sin with their eyes open to this wrong will not be surprised to find that they will be separated from the presence of God in the world to come. This is spiritual death....

The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to the restriction placed upon them. "No person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood" (Brigham Young). It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a "Nation of Priesthood holders"....

The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent, and then, of course, they have been persuaded by some of the arguments that have been put forth....We who teach in the Church certainly must have our feet on the ground and not to be led astray by the philosophies of men on this subject....

I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, "First we pity, then endure, then embrace"....

Now let's talk about segregation again for a few moments. Was segregation a wrong principle? When the Lord chose the nations to which the spirits were to come, determining that some would be Japanese and some would be Chinese and some Negroes and some Americans, He engaged in an act of segregation....

When he told Enoch not preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were black, the Lord engaged in segregation. When He cursed the descendants of Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in segregation....

Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And when He placed them there, He segregated them....

The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negro we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that he placed a dark skin upon them as a curse -- as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse. And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there....

Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, "what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Only here we have the reverse of the thing -- what God hath separated, let not man bring together again."

Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood.... This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in their lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa--if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

When I left the church, I had never met a black priesthood holder.
In recent years this position has come under heavy fire from sources inside and outside of the church, but old doctrines die a slow and painful death.
The illustration above serves one purpose and that is to point out that the speaker was a member of the highest order who was speaking on behalf of the president and prophet.
Which returns us back to the word of god relayed
to the membership through the living prophet....
and it must be obeyed.
And the prophet says that god is and was a racist.
It took me a number of years to understand
the significance of admonitions issued through the general authorities of the church and the tendancy to include with every directive the
approval of the presidency and the prophet.

There are evn more directives concerning discriminatory actions and patriarchal oppression
and gender bias, but it is unnecessary to continue this.

My point here is very simply that we are sometimes blinded by our own freethinking.
We dismiss these religious zealots every day as nutcases and not worth the trouble of even discussing.
Sometimes we even ridicule those who seem to be paraniod without reason, and that is exactly what those who have an agenda of aquiring political power depend upon to further their plans.
They want us to believe that they are crazy and dismiss their rants and ravings as deluded, it provides them cover for their covert dealings.

Mormonism is a plague, and it is infecting millions. But because they do not publically blow up buildings and shout about their Jihad they are not seen as any threat to liberty or freedom.

I was accused of having a bitter break with the church and therefore was certainly biased in a negative way against the organization.
This I will not deny......I see the church as a cult, run by old white men who are convinced they talk to god on a regular basis.
They use scare tactics to make converts at times by claiming to be the only safe haven in the chaos they themselves have predicted.

They are blatantly sexist, and racist.
They lure in members by the promise of supernatural abilities that are bestowed upon priesthood holders directly from god himself.

And believe it or not quite a few converts who are male, are attracted to the subservient role
of females within the church.

As I wrote this, I began to mentally compare other forms of organized religion and their various doctrines but I failed to find a comparable political agenda, only a comparable
amount of brainwashing and fanaticism.
Wolf
<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

zpriesko

Hey Wolf.

I've been an atheist for a while now but once upon a time I dated a mormon girl. When I dated her I agreed to give the church a sincere try at converting me. They tried and I studied the church very closely.

I agree with everything you said about the practices of the church in regards to racism, sexism and the general scare tactics they use. I actually attended the bi-annual conference in Salt Lake once. I was shocked by the ignorance of all the followers I met. And while I agree that the church deffinitly has a political agenda I don't think it is quite as coherent as you imply. This is only from my personal experience but I think the potential for very bad things from the Mormon church is definitly there.

I was disgusted by the way mormon's convert people. They prey on the most foolish and most helpless of people. Many people dont have any idea what they are getting into when they join, and the church encourages and prefers it this way.

In my own conversion experience they were shocked and somewhat terrified when I started looking for other sources about mormonism. They told me that anything negative I found was produced by Satan and should be ignored.

I just wanted to share my experience and say I don't think you're crazy. Mormonism is often overlooked because they are very subtle. I have often wondered why they aren't discussed more in the forums here. By the way, could you refer me to the thread where mormonism was being discussed.

Thanks

Eudaimonist

Are you saying that you had converted to Mormonism? What were you before you were a Mormon?

Wow! That's a clear warning sign of a cult.

[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Eudaimonist ]</p>

pescifish

I went through a full course of study in the church of LDS with the express stipulation that I had absolutely no intention of converting. The deal I made was that I was interested in studying the church but that if there was great pressure to convert I would back off.

There were many things that I liked about the theology and I liked their specific guidelines for certain activities, but everything about the church itself stunk to the highest of heavens. I think there definitely is the ruthless organization and business structure to bring about the things you speak of, sighswolf.

I studied with the lil' Elders (the kids doing their ministry) and I graduated to the 'big guns' over the course of 4 months. I enjoyed that period of study, but even if I had been even close to ready to convert there is No Place For The Likes Of Me (unmarried childless female engineer) and I'm certain someone like me would be miserable and relegated to babysitting.

I'm pretty strong willed and though it was not my intent, I did open the eyes of one of the 20 yr old Elders who was just finishing his tour of duty. At his going away party, he told me he was glad he had met me: he had never thought of women as capable and independent and smart. And he said "you seem so happy, yet you aren't one of us." As if that baffled him -- yet he was thinking about it.

Scary stuff.
The new lil' Elder, fresh & spankin' kept giving me the used car line "what will it take for you to drive this religion right off this lot tonight?!" A miracle? I ended my association when I was done with the study materials and told the Elder that I couldn't possibly become Mormon because I like iced tea too much and would never give it up.

sighhswolf

"there is No Place For The Likes Of Me (unmarried childless female engineer) and I'm certain someone like me would be miserable and relegated to babysitting."

Pescifish,
You were more correct than you realize.
Although the church does have activities especially for unmarried adults, those activities are designed to introduce unmarried females to
unmarried Elders in the hope of getting them wives.

LDS feel that all females should be married and
spitting out babies.
They may not tell you that, but had you joined/converted, there would not be a shortage
of males pointed in your direction.

The relief society would have undertaken a charge to find you an eligible elder, regardless of whether you wanted one or not.

It is kinda funny you should mention tea.
When I left the church, shortly before, I had a meeting with the Bishop in my home.
I had not attended services for quite some time and my good mormon wife had expressed her desire to have the Bishop speak to me with the aim of getting me involved again.

So, when the Bishop came to speak with me, I sat and listened with a cigarette in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other.
I think I purposely said Damn at least 6 or 7 times during the interview.
They gave up on me..............a heathen lost cause....
Wolf

pescifish

Thank goodness for those evil weeds!

beachbum

Questions, questions questions. I have a ton of them. My only experience with mormons is a short conversation or two with a former co-worker and at one time I read "The God-Makers". The first part of the book was interesting then the stupid fuck decided to become a fundy and started preaching their trash.

To someone who knows: How much of what "The God-Maker' discussion on mormonism is correct? It tells that the purpose of multi wives is to populate some planet after death? Is any of that true in the Mormon belief system?

Also it went into detail about mormons actually seperating a good mormon wife from here 'backsliding' husband and spiriting the wife and kids out of town, never to be seen by the fallen husband again? How about that stuff?

I really would like to know more.

thanks

Stan the curious beachbum.

pepperlandgirl

There are 3 levels of heaven, according to the LDS Doctrine. At the highest level, the ultimate reward is to not only be with God, but to also become a Godhead. The only way for this to happen is if you are married. When you become a God/Goddess you populate your own planet. In that sense, our God was a man at one point who earned the right to become a God. Because of this it is possible to have multiple wives, though it is not required. At least, not anymore.

Viti

They have a saying "As Man is God once was and as God is Man may be"...they also believe God has a wife or a few and that we are their "spiritual" children made flesh or some rubbish.

My Mormon friend divorced the man she was "sealed" to, and I asked her what happens when she dies, she said she can only be a ministering angel.

Weird wacky folk them Mormons

sighhswolf

Wacky....yep I would say so.
Most people who have not investigated LDS and their doctrines have no idea of the founding
father and his mystical ways.

Joseph Smith's family and he himself were, according to accounts being dug out now, very involved with occult beliefs and the practice of Magic.
The use of divining rods, Talismans, magic parchments, occult mentors to teach the ways of mysticism were a part of Smith's existence.

He was by all accounts an accomplished treasure finder, utilizing "seer stones" to find buried treasure.
Smith was very involved in the practice of Astrology, even to the point of timing many of his marriages by astrological charts.

Smith was a believer in the use of Skull contours
to define the personality traits of humans.
Of course we must keep these things in perspective
as many of the worlds religions today are driven by mysticism, but there was at the time of Smiths life a fear of mysticism and "good christians" did not seek introduction into the occult.

The use of sacred words as power generators, exorcisms of demons, set rituals to gain mystical
powers.

In years past the church would, in the event of someone digging up some dirt or occult practices
attributed to the founders, loudly decry their enemies were out to slander the church without
any actual evidence.
And of course the claim was that anything written against the church was a ploy by Satan to discredit the LDS.

But in the last few years there has been a revival of historic digging and intellectual inquirey into the life of the founder of the LDS
and the reasoning behind the migration to Utah.

There have been manuscripts buried by the church out of the eye of the public that have been spirited out of the vaults of the church by
those who really want to know the truth.
Many have been verified as being historically accurate, and containing personal notations from the founders and prophets.

It is also well known that Smith studied Kabalistic Literature under the instruction of a Jewish mystic.

There are many aspects of mormon doctrine that are quite simply based on ritualistic magic and occult practices and believe it or not, this is a draw for some of the newer converts.
They want to believe in the power of magic, the power of the priesthood given to LDS directly from god.

If anyone wants to read more or investigate the claims I have made, I will be happy to direct you to the proper information.
Wolf