joedad

Was thinking about this after I got my most recent solicitation by phone.

Pennsylvania recently enacted phone solicitation legislation. As of this coming October, phone solicitors must check with the state, which must maintain a list of persons who do not want to be solicited by phone. Soliciting such individuals becomes illegal. There are a few groups excepted from this law, and I don't have the legislation in front of me. One such group may indeed be the religious.

Anyway, is the reason for granting an exception to the religious the establishment clause? If so, I would think that a solicitation law should make this decision a matter of personal preference, and not state mandate. IOW, if I personally don't want the JWs on my doorstep, I should be able to get that done just as well.

There was a recent thread on this subject, but I think the community actually put a ban on all solicitations. My idea of proper legislation would be for a community to not ban outright all such activities, but to still allow individual citizens to decline solicitation, including JWs in the same manner as PA has done with phone solicitations.

Would that be legal?

joe

Toto

The latest Supreme Court ruling on this is discussed in <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000094&p=" target="_blank">this thread.</a> I think it might be hard to fashion a legal ban on JW soliciting.

4th Generation Atheist

What would be wrong with allowing homeowners and renters to affix a state decal to the door, which prevented all in-person solicitation? This could apply to religions, vacuum cleaner salesmen, Girl Scouts, the whole bunch, and be available to those who registered with the state list. Wouldn't that be in fine accord with the First Amendment? Where does that thing read that I have to talk to the JWs at dinnertime?

Splat

joedad: there is a loophole in the PA no-call list, an exception for calls "Made on behalf of a tax-exempt charitable or fraternal organization" (<a href="http://www.nocallsplease.com/index.cfm?page=exceptions" target="_blank">click here.</a>) So as long as it's legal to give churches tax exempt status, I suppose it's legal to except them from the no-call list). I'm just wondering why they don't give us the option of blocking ALL solicitations.

I like the decal idea.

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: Splat ]</p>

lisarea

This is actually a free speech issue, rather than an establishment issue.

Exceptions to free speech have been made for advertising, but they do not extend to non-profit speech, so the solicitation rules don't apply. There is a national law that governs telemarketing (the TCPA), and many states have enacted telemarketing legislation. Various municipalities also have door-to-door solicitation rules (such as "No Soliciting" signs have the force of law), but actually banning non-profit activities is shaky ground because of the basic free speech issues. As such, it doesn't apply to political campaigns, religious crap, or crazy people coming to your door or calling you to tell you that there are alien overlords living in the bowels of your local airport.

We tend to get a lot of Mormons and JWs around here, and we've recently been getting creepy little brochures hung on the door by a local Baptist church as well. It does annoy me, but I wouldn't want to see it outlawed. I just tell them how rude and inconsiderate they're being, and if they push it, I tell them that I think their beliefs are for people who are emotionally and intellectually weak.

And you know, door-to-door atheism is not illegal, either. You could hand out copies of The Demon Haunted World and Why I am Not a Christian, and maybe make up little Jack Chick style pamphlets showing the detritous effects of superstitious thinking.

never been there

Before you solicit the power of the state intervene to allow you an uninterrupted supper, have you tried posting your own "no flyers, no solicitors, no proselytizers" sign?

If it works, you can have your freedom and eat, too.

Or, if you look around hard enough (the internet should help), you can get door mats that say something quite contrary to "welcome".

joedad

Splat, thanks for the link.

I still don't entirely get how my idea conflicts with the discussion pertaining to JW's in the other thread. I'm not stating that the municipality in which I reside would need to review solicitations and issue permits. And as 4GA implied, how is it an infringement on anyone's freedom of speech to be made aware that someone does not want to be solicited? That's the major difference between this and the law in Stratton.

And I like the idea of an official decal of some kind issued by a government entity, even if it costs a few bucks.
Actually, I don't want my house to stand out in some negative way. Know what I mean? "No Trespassing" or "Beware of Dog" (Beware of Atheist) signs are in poor taste and for lowlifes imho, and are last resort measures if anything. Hope no one took offense at that. But maybe a "Thanks for Not Soliciting" sign would be in order.
I will remember that! I'll have something prepared along those lines the next time the JWs come calling.

Thanks All,

joe

lisarea

Well, unfortunately, those are roundly ignored.

After a couple of years of incessant soliciting at my house, I finally gave in and put a "No Soliciting" sign on my door. Apparently, this the the sign of a 'mark.' Solicitors are told that the people who put these up are people who can't say "No."

Well, they're wrong, but apparently, I now have to explain that to everyone, individually.

I have, however, left it up as a polite request. With that there, when someone does ring my bell, I can point it out and tell them that I've requested that they not disturb me, and I resent the fact that they've chosen to disrespect my wishes, ignore my request, and take me away from what I was doing. (I can't really muster the resolve to be impolite to people unless I build up a little extra justifiable anger.)

It also helps that I agree that those signs are tacky and trashy, and I resent that I've actually had to resort to putting one on my door.

4th Generation Atheist

(But what if there are alien overlords hidden in the bowels of my local airport? Enquiring minds want to know!) (J/K! )

lisarea

Oh, don't be ridiculous. Everybody knows that's just at DIA. The real New World Order has to maintain a centrally located North American customer service center because of all the different time zones.

If I recall correctly, though, Dulles has a training camp for the newly created race of atomic supermen who will be the world police when the time comes.