Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Starboy · 07-16-2002, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steven S:
<strong>

Yes, it is well known that life is an example of a system where there exists a local decrease in entropy at the expense of its surroundings. However, that is not what this paper shows and I don't know why you call this a red herring.

Steven S</strong>

It is a red herring if the assumption is that the result has any effect on the creation vs. evolution debate.

Starboy

Caverdude · 07-16-2002, 07:42 PM

The entropy issue often brought up by Creationists is not valid since entropy applies only to closed systems.

tronvillain · 07-16-2002, 07:58 PM

Starboy has a point - this thread would be more appropriate in the Science&Skepticism forum.

HRG · 07-17-2002, 12:43 AM

That entropy - like every quantity in statistical thermodynamics - fluctuates is really well-known. The formula for the mean-square deviation of entropy is derived in any advanced course on thermodynamics.

HRG.

Oolon Colluphid · 07-17-2002, 01:00 AM

My favourite point about the not-getting-order-from-disorder claim (which is what creationists are getting at by invoking the 2LoT) is this:

It doesn't affect growth, obviously.

It equally obviously doesn�t affect reproduction.

However, the tendency towards disorder does mean that the copying process in reproduction is not perfect. There are errors. We call these errors �mutations�.

Selection means only those mutations that work, or work better, get through to the next round of the game. Thus selection strongly opposes the tendency to disorder in continuing lineages.

In other words, one can argue that, rather than the 2LoT making evolution impossible, it is the reason evolution is possible!

Oolon

Jimmy Higgins · 07-17-2002, 05:06 AM

Is the sun's entropy large enough to cover evolution for argument's sake?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-16-2002, 07:42 PM	#12
Caverdude Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bristol, TN Posts: 83	The entropy issue often brought up by Creationists is not valid since entropy applies only to closed systems.

07-16-2002, 07:58 PM	#13
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	Starboy has a point - this thread would be more appropriate in the Science&Skepticism forum.

07-17-2002, 12:43 AM	#14
HRG Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 2,406	That entropy - like every quantity in statistical thermodynamics - fluctuates is really well-known. The formula for the mean-square deviation of entropy is derived in any advanced course on thermodynamics. HRG.

07-17-2002, 01:00 AM	#15
Oolon Colluphid Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alibi: ego ipse hinc extermino Posts: 12,591	My favourite point about the not-getting-order-from-disorder claim (which is what creationists are getting at by invoking the 2LoT) is this: It doesn't affect growth, obviously. It equally obviously doesn�t affect reproduction. However, the tendency towards disorder does mean that the copying process in reproduction is not perfect. There are errors. We call these errors �mutations�. Selection means only those mutations that work, or work better, get through to the next round of the game. Thus selection strongly opposes the tendency to disorder in continuing lineages. In other words, one can argue that, rather than the 2LoT making evolution impossible, it is the reason evolution is possible! Oolon

07-17-2002, 05:06 AM	#16
Jimmy Higgins Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Proud Citizen of Freedonia Posts: 42,473	Is the sun's entropy large enough to cover evolution for argument's sake?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.