Magus55

Well Revelation is a future account, therefore it can't necessarily be taken in the most absolute literal sense. Yes most christians believe in the 4 horseman, and God's wrath on the Earth, but we don't know exactly how its gonna turn out. We have to use our own educated guess to fill in the missing pieces. Could it be an actual star that falls? Sure, not like God can't shrink a star big enough to hit the earth without completely overwhelming it, but its more likely an asteroid. You also have to realize, this book has been around for thousands of years. God may have revealed to John that it was a star because thats what the people of the time it was written understand, but God knew that people in the future would read it and realize its most likely referring to an asteroid.

Diana,


No Jesus never said his second coming and the rapture was in the days of the aspotle, all atheists use that argument to disprove it.

Sad for the young girl, not Jesus' fault. Jesus never said halt your lives and wait for me. He clearly pointed out no human knows the day when he will return, he said to continue living your lives but keep watch for the signs of his return and he will come soon. And yes he will come soon, 1000 human years is like 1 day to God, so in the scheme of God's time, it will be soon.

What message of fear? What are Christians supposedly fearing? God's wrath on the Earth? Thats for the unbelievers, not the believers.

Debbie T

BTW I am not Diana

I can read the words and the words say:

16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

So either you or the bible is lying. The disciples he was speaking to when he said this are all dead and have been dead for thousands of years. Was the prophecy been fulfilled?

Yes it is very sad and I see many Christians wasting their lives in this way. And yet here you are trying to spread the same fear myth.

Do you even listen to yourself? Unbelievers have nothing to fear since they lack belief. It's Christians I see damaging their lives because of the fear mongerers amongst them.

Spaz

Yeah, my friend just told me today that he knew some jehovah's witnesses that lived down the street from him or something and that at the 2000 new year they sold all their possessions and went to the top of a hill to wait for jesus.

And Magus, 1000 years is like a day to god eh? I'm surprised this all-powerful being still measures his time by the revolutions of the earth around the sun I thought he made time, how could he at all be limited in it? Shouldn't it be more like "God has no concept of time"? I'd think that you'd just take that metaphorically as meaning that god has no concept of time, but hey, gotta be literal

Treacle Worshipper

First of all, guys, I don't recall that Magus has ever claimed the inerrancy of the Bible. (Altho' I'm open to correction.) If this is so, it's not for us to tell him that he should interpret it literally.
Second of all, "falling star" is a common colloquial phrase for the asteroids we see burning up in the night sky. Therefore it's not too great a stretch for whatever the word is in the original to be translated as "star". I doubt they had a word for "asteroid" when John was writing.
Just my 2pennorth,
TW

Biff the unclean

Yes they are called "falling stars' because our ancestors who didn't know any better thought that that was what they literally were. They were one of the lights that hung from the dome of the sky that got lose and fell to the floor. Not all that strange an assumption for someone from a primitive culture to make.

And therein lies the problem.

This isn't supposed to be from some primitive person. This is supposed to be from the God who made it all. The God who was all knowing. The God who put the stars in their positions himself.

The relative difference between a really big asteroid and a smallish star in size and state is about the same as the difference between a Stay-puff mini-marshmallow and a 500-mega ton hydrogen bomb. God would know this. John the Divine doesn't.

When Magus 55 says God may have revealed to John that it was a star because thats what the people of the time it was written understand, but God knew that people in the future would read it and realize its most likely referring to an asteroid. he is not claiming that the bible is inerrant, he is saying that God is lying to Saint John. He would also like the rest of us not to wonder why, if God meant an asteroid, he didn't say that a rock would fall from the sky. Something Johnny the D would have had no trouble understanding.

The book of revelations displays nothing except a primitive misunderstanding of the world. One that we have long since discarded because our observations show that it was in error. Since they are in error the Book of Revelations cannot possibly be from God and therefore should be considered a work of fiction.

Magus55

He meant, none of the Aspotles would die until they saw him ascend into heaven. Jesus never said and none of you shall taste death until i return to Earth from my kingdom. Basically it meant, the Aspotles couldn't be killed until Jesus left the Earth to return to Heaven and sit at the right hand of God. It is not talking about his second coming from his kingdom.

Spaz, why do you bother? God did create time, 1000 years = 1 day to him is for us to relate to, we can't comprehend existing outside of time, so he puts it in "laymens" terms for us to be able to understand. He is showing how insignificant Earth time is to him, to God, the time the Earth has existed is very short.

Spaz

Do I understand that you just rolled your eyes at me then agreed with me that god is outside of time?

When you say 1000 years is equal to 1 day to humans you're restricting time there, God would have no concept of time, therefore saying that 1000 years is equal to 1 day (at least now, maybe back in the day people were too dumb to understand that god was outside of time or something) is pointless. 1000 years would be equal to nothing outside of time.

Magus55

No i rolled my eyes at you because you make things stupidly complicated just so you can hear yourself talk (*type*).

Who said God couldn't exist within time while simultaneously existing outside of it? God existed in time when he came to earth in human form. God created time, therefore he can do whatever he wants with it. The difference is, he isn't bound inside of it like we are. We can't exist outside of time, God can. He knows what 1000 years mean, he created the revolution of the earth around the sun therefore he understands the concept of a human year. But he isn't held to human standards of time. To God himself, time is meaningless because it doesn't affect him directly ( except when he became human), but he does interact and relate to it indirectly by his own choosing.

Rhea

Isn't this a violation of our Free Will?

Magus55

No, Free will doesn't say you can defy the laws of physics, matter, and time. God bound humans within time, therefore humanities Free will can only exist within the boundaries God set for it. You still make your own choice of right and wrong, good and evil.