Buffman

...not just by preaching to the choir on this board, but by letting our elected officials know that we are atheists and we vote!

Isn't it by educating the choir that reads this kind of board that helps to get the word out to a larger audience than just a few friends in one's hometown? Do you think there would be any Godless March if it weren't for boards like this?

Personally, I have lost considerable respect and confidence in the current set of elected officials. They have all but ignored our Constitution and are making up their own laws as they struggle to hold on to the power we have given them...and that We the People should take away from them before it IS too late. Unfortunately, the contenders for their offices offer little change in character, integrity, knowledge or constitutional comprehension. That is why I have been attempting to spread the most accurate knowledge I can find about American and World History to those still capable of independent critical thought...the people that frequent these boards. Though I am no longer able to carry placards in the streets, I am still able to wave banners in the mind. Each of us must do what we are most capable of doing.

It is only through enlisting as many accurate voices as possible that the sound of democracy and the principles for which we stand will be heard throughout the land. People like Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were able to rally the spirit of individual conscience and freedom within their fellow colonists simply with the power and accuracy of their words. I fully realize that words alone are not enough. However, when those words reveal the righteousness, yes, righteousness, of the underlying principles, then humans who are capable of physical action will act...especially when led by people of principle and integrity.
(Sorry! I'm feeling a little grumpy today and found myself agreeing with 4th Generation Atheist more than I wished.)

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: Buffman ]</p>

galiel

I agree completely. That is why I said, not JUST by preaching to the choir (which was a polite way of saying don't just complain about it here, 1) VOTE! 2)become active.

4th Generation Atheist

As far as "bothering" to vote is concerned, I emphatically bother. I'm a very bothered voter in every election.

crazyfingers

Me too. I always vote. I often have to vote absentee because of travel. But I still vote.

My old boss never voted and always was complaining about things. I kept telling him that unless he votes, he has no business complaining.

Shake

I know. I can't stand those sorts of people. I vote too, even though sometimes the choices are frustrating. My whole theory is, if the incumbants aren't doing a good job, vote 'em out! If the other guy/gal is only a minor improvement, it's still an improvement! If not, maybe there'll be a better choice next time. Barring either of those choices, run yourself! I've gotten fed up with both Democrats and Republicans to varying degrees. I'll register as a Democrat, because they're very strong locally, so it's a better way to make my votes effective, by being able to vote in the primaries too. But I consider myself a Libertarian, not because I agree with all of their issues ('cause I don't), but they seem pretty open-minded in general, and I like the idea of making government smaller (as opposed to just limiting gov't expansion). Go to<a href="http://www.lp.org/quiz/" target="_blank">the world's smallest political quiz</a> to see what your leanings are. You may be surprised!

Manta

Am....um...I mean RIGHT ON!

If he's anything like the McConnell here in SC then by all means, he needs the boot.

-K

eldar1011

Confession time...

I've never voted.

I would have posted that in the <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=48&t=001176" target="_blank">"Short, shamelss confessions"</a> thread, but I am very ashamed.

This has changed this year. The events of 9/11, the Pledge debate, the Bush Administration...all of this served to wake me up. I am sorry that it took that much to do it, but I'm glad it finally happened.

I was never one to complain about politics or the government, I just never thought about it. I was one of the sheep.

Not anymore. I'll be casting my first vote ever in this year's midterm election. Unfortunately, I have very bad choices for state Senator. I may have to vote for the incumbent, not because I agree with his politics, but because the other candidates are much more distasteful.

Alonzo Fyfe

I am just going to toss out some thoughts for general entertainment value.

Actually, the sentiment expressed above, however popular, is not logical. The soundness of a person's argument does not depend on whether a person has voted or not. And to use one's voting history (or lack of it) as a reason to dismiss his arguments is to perform an ad hominem fallacy -- to attack the person making the
argument as a way of attacking the argument.

In fact, for many people, voting is irrational. Certainly, if one is to vote, then one should cast an INFORMED vote. But an informed vote has a cost -- the opportunity cost of obtaining and sorting through stacks of relevant data. For an act to be rational, one must expect the benefit to exceed the cost. (Benefit, here, is defined broadly, and includes such payoffs as improved wellbeing for the people the agent cares about, and the advancement of whatever aims -- both altruistic and selfish -- the agent may have.) But, in fact, the payoff of all that effort (in terms of actually having an impact on the results of any election) are nearly zero.

So, high costs and low payoff means that voting may well be irrational.

The only real counter I have heard to this argument is "what if everybody thought that way."

Well, the more people who "thought that way", the greater the likelihood that one's own vote will actually make a difference, and the greater the rationality of voting. Voting becomes more rational as fewer votes get cast. There is, then, some equilibrium level of voting -- beyond which society suffers real costs without any real benefit, and below which society loses benefits that would otherwise exceed the social costs.

If one truly wishes to maximize the impact and value of his or her actions, it makes sense to put one's efforts into activities that produce the greatest effect per unit of cost/effort expended, and to avoid expending effort on activities where the probability of having a meaningful effect are significantly smaller.

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Alonzo Fyfe ]</p>

Sushi X

I'm going to send mine as soon as I find out what the hell that kind of bill is! I know its gotta be bad cuz everyone says its bad, but what is it!

galiel

Alonzo, you have a unique concept of entertainment value.