HelenM

I think your daughter will remember that when you weren't sure, you did some research. That's great role-modelling, imo.

I think it's about time someone you know stuck up for you! I'm very pleased to hear her father wouldn't support her leaving you, Darren. And I'm glad you've stopped arguing with each other because arguing is so painful. I expect you're both appreciating the break from it.

I hope next week goes ok for you.

take care
Helen

Rhea

Kind of funny (in a wry way) that you kept your mouth shut to keep from having to announce that your wife was wrong and you, by extension were right, when in fact what you might have said might have been wrong.

That might be a fun thing to share with your daughter. Teach about the value of (secular) humility as well as the value of research and an open mind.... Bearing in mind that (secular) humility is a necessary ingredient in allowing religion to be questioned... "just because I think I know something because I've always thought the answer was clear, doesn't mean I'm actually right"

That just struck me as interesting and lesson-bearing all at once. (Hmmm, note to Self, good lesson there. Heed it.)

Ted Hoffman

I think I can provide some of my astronomical know how here though I am in every sense of the word green in this area.
Vikar Philip
The earth keeps spinning (rotating) and revolving largely due to angular momentum (and for the same reasons the planets rrevolve around the sun) - consistent with the conservation of angular momentum.
Fill some water in a bath tub or sink. Then remove the blockage to allow the water to drain off. You will notice the water spinning as it flows off and spinning more rapidly towards the point of drainage.
Our solar system formed when interstellar material (dust) collapsed under gravitational attraction and as they all collapsed to one point, they started rotating as more and more material got attracted by the collapsing mass and it that is what caused the rotation. At the center of that collapse came our sun and the planets represent the material that coalesced during that process.
I have heard others postulate that a nearby supernova could have initiated the rotation and the collapse, but I doubt that.
I hope this is of help. You can help your daughter understand the whole picture from the big bang, the colissions (creation and annihilation of particled) of the simplest elements to create more and heavier elements and thereby matter, gravitational pull etc that resulted in creation of matter then the collapse of that matter to form our solar system etc. Use a simple example like the bath tub one above and I think she should be able to get the picture.

I hope this helps. Dont sit by and watch as your daughter is fed incorrect information. If not known, tell her so.

My 2$

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Intensity ]</p>

Vicar Philip

Thanks for the info, Intensity!

I'll be the first to admit to my kids that I don't know, but I knew that right there in the van next to my wife wasn't the time or place to address it.

I knew she would take offense if I pooh-poohed her "god" excuse, so I saved it for later. I don't know, maybe it is something I SHOULD address in front of her so she knows I'm keeping everything out in the open.

Agree?

Vicar

agapeo

I don't know Vicar. Perhaps it might be best that such disagreements are not aired in front of your children. What would be the profit to them? No matter who is right or wrong, your children will just see that the two of you are not seeing eye to eye and that means more to them than who is right or wrong on such matters.

P.S. Sorry Pecifish -- I know I said I wouldn't post to this topic again, but I couldn't resist.

Edited grammar.

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: agapeo ]</p>

Proxima Centauri

I read this post yesterday. I'm a bit worried about it. In UK English to "give her "what for" would would mean to exert violent physical punishment. I hope it means soemthing less extreme in the US.
If your father in law is the way he would be if her were using UK English that could explain why your wife feels insecure whenever she is not in control. She needs a great deal of reassurance, but not the type which lets her control you or the family excessively.
If I have misunderstood the US English I apologize for an irrelevant post.

seebs

For what it's worth, I know a gay Taoist who plays piano for a church. He likes the music.

I have some suggestions for paths to take to encouraging your wife to accept you, but I'm afraid some of them involve claims that I probably shuoldn't publically make in SLS. Feel free to email me if you want some ideas that might involve citing the Bible. I will say, I think she's mistaken, and she should stay with you. You sound like a good guy.

Vicar Philip

The Vicar had a shitty night and needs a nip of his hooch.

B. Shack, fear not; her father wouldn't dare strike her. He did when she was a child, unfortunately, and certainly could bear part of the blame for her insecurity. They are a lot closer than ever now, and the "what for" were actually my words, not his. He just supported my position, that god wasn't worth losing her family.

Anyway, tonight we went to my work xmas party. Sounds harmless, right? Well I was joking around with one of the single girls at our table, and my wife suddenly turned into a bitch at that point. Heaven forbid I kid around with my co-workers, you know. She claimed I wasn't talking to HER at all, which of course isn't true. She didn't know anybody, and the way she chooses to vent her fear is by being pissed at ME. Wonderful.

We left, picked up the kids at one of her friends' house. She proceeded to tell the friend how I "flirted" with another girl and had ignored her the whole night. She then teared up and went back out to the van, where she stayed until I came out with the kids.

Once we got home, we had The Discussion. Let me tell you all something for some background: shortly after I confided my loss of faith to her, she started working a day job. She also kept her night job, so was (and still is) working 80 hours a week. I was strongly against this, but she claims we need the money. I constantly tell her we don't need the money THAT bad.

I told you that to tell you this. She doesn't feel like I like her at all, or love her as much as I used to (you know, back when I was a god-fearing, Jebus loving Christian), and I am to blame for the distance between us. Of course, I respond, well gee, is it POSSIBLE that since we get to see each other for only a few minutes a day, and when she IS here she is either asleep or a zombie, that maybe THAT is why we're not getting along???

Instead, my ATHEISM (evil music and a crack of thunder stage left) is in fact the culprit, as it is RUINING our marriage. Damn all you infidels, you've made me no longer love my wife!!!

WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT. I'm so fucking pissed off I can barely hold my rosary.

Sorry for the rant folks, but as I've said before, this is really the only place I can unload. It feels good to see it written out where I can reflect on it later. I do hope this is another bout of depression for her, but she has to cut back on the work hours. Our marriage is worth more than a (slightly) bigger bank account.

Vicar (about to blow the dust off the rum bottle)

seebs

Oh, man. That's rough.

You're entirely right; I think she's doing a self-fulfilling prophecy thing here. "If my husband is an atheist, our marriage won't work. I need to stop putting effort into a doomed marriage. Look, it's failing!"

Words cannot express my sorrow. Marriages are a Good Thing, and I hate to see them in trouble. Here's hoping she comes around.

Remember, some of this will be holiday stress; try to weather it out.

captainpabst

Word.

Somehow you have to make her feel as though nothing is different - that you love her and everything is cool. Man, I'm not in your position and I know it's rough, but try to come on to her - you are a bloodthirsty male and you want her ass, nothing will keep you from it. Who cares about your philosophical diffence? Fuckit. You are a confident, open-minded male. Please your wife. She (and your family) is/are worth it.

Cap'n