Bumble Bee Tuna

What does Yahweh want from the world? Specifically, what does he want from humans? The world is obviously not perfect by our standards, but we are told that God wants it this way because his plan calls for certain things that can only be achieved like this.

From what I can tell, God wants people who have faith in him and freely choose to believe in Him. But it seems to be a bit more than that: God wants people to not only to have a choice to believe in him, but to have a choice where believing doesn't make sense. After all, he could reveal himself, and people would still be able to choose to believe in him or to disobey him. They would just actually know he existed instead of needing to make an uninformed decision.

Any actual theists want to try to explain their impressions of what God wants? Then we can move on to a discussion of whether he chose the best means to try to achieve those goals.

-B

Cthulhu

Well, I'm not a theist, but I'm good at impressions.

Magus55 - God is unknowable. But I know God loves you and wants what's best for you. Amen.

Radorth - Blah blah blah. Read some Shakespeare and get back to me.

VivaHedone

Christians usually assume that bringing god into the equation somehow explains our existence, but actually it creates more problems. What possible reason could an omnipotent ominscient being have for creating us? He cannot need us for anything, as he is omnipotent. He did not create us for our own pleasure, as he created us with in the full knowledge (after all, he is omniscient) that A + E would succumb to tempation and plunge the world into evil. But then again, God works in mysterious ways...

christ-on-a-stick

Hey Cthulhu,
You forgot to do Amos!

Spaz

I thought Rad would say something more along the lines of a zen course

Cthulhu

Sorry, my mistake.

Amos - God wants nothing from the world because in knowing God we know ourselves and the world knows itself, and by knowing itself the world becomes God and we ourselves become God. Only by reason of faith and the faithlessness of reason can true enlightenment occur.

spurly

Why did God create the world?

Here's my best answer. He created the world and the universe as a cosmic love note to us to let us know how much he cared about us and wanted a relationship with us. Then he placed us right in the middle of his love note.

The only problem is that some people cant see how much he loves them, no matter how much he shows them.

Here's the way Julian of Norwich puts it:

"For we are so preciously loved of God that we cannot even comprehend it. No created being can ever know how much God sweetly and tenderly loves them."
-Julian of Norwich


Kevin

christ-on-a-stick

spurly,

that has to be one of the most sickeningly ridiculous things I have ever heard. I would almost pray that you are a troll (if I didn't know what a frickin' waste it would be).

AIDS... God's love note to the world.
EBOLA.... God's love note to the world (as you bleed to death from every orifice).
CANCER... God's love note to the world.
STARVATION... God's love note to the world.
EARTHQUAKES... God's love note to the world.
MALARIA.....

You get my point.

And one simple question: If "God didn't *create* these things", WHO DID? Who else has the *creative* powers? Who designed the intricacies of these things (since you think that all complex things must have a *designer*?

If somebody else has got the creative powers, maybe we should commission them to create a God more worthy of worship.

If not, then you have to deal with all of the above being part of God's "love note". Sounds like an abusive, sadistic f*cker to me.

Good thing he only resides between your ears.

spurly

Christ-on-a-stick: (By the way, I love your name, because it was Christ-on-a-stick that allowed me to come back into a relationship with God. Everytime I look at your screen name, I praise God)

To the subject matter at hand:

I think you know what I am going to say. Yes, God created a perfect world. Then sin entered through the prideful Satan and messed everything up. But in the end, again we will be living in a world where the things you mentioned don't exist. Those things don't exist because God willed them - they exist because we made a choice and that choice brought about death and every other evil that is rampant on earth.

Kevin

christ-on-a-stick

Hello Kevin,

Yes I did know you were going to say that Does this prove my ESP??? Hmmmm...

More to the point, I understand what you are saying about God *allowing* this stuff, but who CREATED and DESIGNED them?

('cuz y'know that whole thing about how only God has the creator powers. Otherwise, hey whoever created that other bad stuff can create something to wipe out that nasty Yahweh character!)

So, who "programmed" Ebola virus and such?

*Hmmmm... Edited to Add: if sin entered through a prideful Satan... who created Satan and his nature? Doesn't everything trace back to one initial source?