Freethought & Rationalism Archive

butswana · 02-19-2002, 05:58 AM

I was reading The Turd a while ago. I came across a verse concerning beating a pregnant woman and killing the fetus. I can't remember where it was. Can anyone help? I thought it might be a nice verse to smack an anti-abortion puke with.

MassAtheist · 02-19-2002, 06:09 AM

I think you are looking for Exodus 21:22

""If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows"

Jack the Bodiless · 02-19-2002, 06:59 AM

Baiting anti-abortionists with the Bible can be great fun.

Have you seen <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/04/27/censorship/" target="_blank">God is an abortionist</a>?

This section appears to be pro-abortion.

Quote:

Numbers 5:19-22 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.

Drinking a liquid that causes "thy thigh to rot and thy belly to swell" can't be good for the fetus.

Buckster · 02-19-2002, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by butswana:
<strong>I was reading The Turd a while ago. I came across a verse concerning beating a pregnant woman and killing the fetus. I can't remember where it was. Can anyone help? I thought it might be a nice verse to smack an anti-abortion puke with.</strong>

Maybe this one?
<a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bg?passage=2+Kings+15:16" target="_blank">http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bg?passage=2+Kings+15:16</a>

Quote:

2 Kings 15
16 At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women.

That would pretty much kill the fetus... AFAIK...

OR maybe this one:

Quote:

Hosea 13 16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Buckster ]</p>

Paradisedreams2 · 02-19-2002, 05:10 PM

That would pretty much kill the fetus.

From what I understand (don't quote me on this) I just learned that the word "fetus" is a latin word for suckling baby (if I got that right). You can check up on it. But I do believe the word they use for "fetus" is used incorrectly according to its proper place as to what it actually means. I heard it on a homeschoolers e-mail group and these people are pretty sharp, so I can almost say with 99% accuracy that they may be correct. If you find out differently please let me know.

The verses on the above post are not what they seem to be. Taken literally is incorrect.

Buckster · 02-19-2002, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paradisedreams2:
That would pretty much kill the fetus.

From what I understand (don't quote me on this) I just learned that the word "fetus" is a latin word for suckling baby (if I got that right). You can check up on it. But I do believe the word they use for "fetus" is used incorrectly according to its proper place as to what it actually means. I heard it on a homeschoolers e-mail group and these people are pretty sharp, so I can almost say with 99% accuracy that they may be correct. If you find out differently please let me know.

In order that I should try not to misunderstand and accidently skewer some innocent(s), who are they please, as referenced in your post (bold emphasis mine)?

Quote:

The verses on the above post are not what they seem to be. Taken literally is incorrect.

Care to demonstrate how to take them non-literally?

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Buckster ]</p>

schu · 02-19-2002, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paradisedreams2:

The verses on the above post are not what they seem to be. Taken literally is incorrect.[/QB]

Numbers 31 -14 But Moses was furious with all the military commanders F109 who had returned from the battle. 15 "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. 16 "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. 18 Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

So you think this doesn't mean what it says. And remember, Jesus was supposed to be one with god so he was in on this gang rape and murder too!

cloudyphiz · 02-19-2002, 06:21 PM

Quote:

"The verses on the above post are not what they seem to be. Taken literally is incorrect."

WHAT???

the verses above describe the means by which a priest is to determine whether or not a woman has been unfaithful when her husband lacks the proof required to have her stoned.

there's nothing in the passage that indicates it should not be taken at face value, as a commandment from yhvh. and the same goes for the verses in 2 kings & hosea.

you're a revisionist. you want so badly for the bible to be something that it isn't that you sacrifice your own honesty & integrity. i'm guessing that you can still sleep at night, but don't ever expect to convince anyone around here w/ statements like that.

-gary

Paradisedreams2 · 02-20-2002, 05:49 AM

Hello Buckster!

I mentioned in my post that the "they" who had informed of what the "fetus" word in latin meant was "suckling".The "they" are a group of homeschoolers and I thought that was pretty neat (because I had no idea). I also said don't quote me on that but look into it.

I posted to them that someone on a board was curious as to where this definition came from and they replied back to me which I will copy paste. The response is not from the original person who gave me the definition, so here it goes.

***
According to Oxford's Latin Dictionary "fetus" has several meanings and can
be used as an adjective or noun. Here is the way the listing reads:

fetus, a, um, (a). pregnant with; fertile; full (of); having newly brought
forth; ~, us, (m).birth; offspring; produce.

Cassell's Latin Dictionary is more detailed.

fetus -a -um, pregnant; fruitful, fertile; teeming with, full of. that has
brought forth, newly delivered.

fetus -us, (m) the bringing forth or hatching of young; of the soil, bearing
or producing. that which is brought forth: offspring, brood; of plants,
fruit, produce, shoot.

Eventhough the word "suckling" isn't used in these dictionary definitions,
there are several that you could interpret to mean this.

I have no beef on this issue whatsoever but found this interesting that the word itself can mean "child". I'm still waiting on replies on this particular word, when I get them I'll repost for you.

Paradisedreams2 · 02-20-2002, 05:58 AM

you're a revisionist. you want so badly for the bible to be something that it isn't that you sacrifice your own honesty & integrity. i'm guessing that you can still sleep at night, but don't ever expect to convince anyone around here w/ statements like that.

Cloudyphiz,

Whats the problem? How have I sacrificed honesty and integrity? Why should I not be able to sleep at night I would like to know.

First off before I even enter into this one, are you a christian or Athiest because that has a big bearing on whether I should waste my breath.

02-19-2002, 05:58 AM	#1
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	help find a bible verse I was reading The Turd a while ago. I came across a verse concerning beating a pregnant woman and killing the fetus. I can't remember where it was. Can anyone help? I thought it might be a nice verse to smack an anti-abortion puke with.

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02-19-2002, 06:09 AM	#2
MassAtheist Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 177	I think you are looking for Exodus 21:22 ""If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows"

02-19-2002, 05:10 PM	#5
Paradisedreams2 Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pa Posts: 113	That would pretty much kill the fetus. From what I understand (don't quote me on this) I just learned that the word "fetus" is a latin word for suckling baby (if I got that right). You can check up on it. But I do believe the word they use for "fetus" is used incorrectly according to its proper place as to what it actually means. I heard it on a homeschoolers e-mail group and these people are pretty sharp, so I can almost say with 99% accuracy that they may be correct. If you find out differently please let me know. The verses on the above post are not what they seem to be. Taken literally is incorrect.

02-20-2002, 05:49 AM	#9
Paradisedreams2 Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pa Posts: 113	Hello Buckster! I mentioned in my post that the "they" who had informed of what the "fetus" word in latin meant was "suckling".The "they" are a group of homeschoolers and I thought that was pretty neat (because I had no idea). I also said don't quote me on that but look into it. I posted to them that someone on a board was curious as to where this definition came from and they replied back to me which I will copy paste. The response is not from the original person who gave me the definition, so here it goes. *** According to Oxford's Latin Dictionary "fetus" has several meanings and can be used as an adjective or noun. Here is the way the listing reads: fetus, a, um, (a). pregnant with; fertile; full (of); having newly brought forth; ~, us, (m).birth; offspring; produce. Cassell's Latin Dictionary is more detailed. fetus -a -um, pregnant; fruitful, fertile; teeming with, full of. that has brought forth, newly delivered. fetus -us, (m) the bringing forth or hatching of young; of the soil, bearing or producing. that which is brought forth: offspring, brood; of plants, fruit, produce, shoot. Eventhough the word "suckling" isn't used in these dictionary definitions, there are several that you could interpret to mean this. I have no beef on this issue whatsoever but found this interesting that the word itself can mean "child". I'm still waiting on replies on this particular word, when I get them I'll repost for you.

02-20-2002, 05:58 AM	#10
Paradisedreams2 Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pa Posts: 113	you're a revisionist. you want so badly for the bible to be something that it isn't that you sacrifice your own honesty & integrity. i'm guessing that you can still sleep at night, but don't ever expect to convince anyone around here w/ statements like that. Cloudyphiz, Whats the problem? How have I sacrificed honesty and integrity? Why should I not be able to sleep at night I would like to know. First off before I even enter into this one, are you a christian or Athiest because that has a big bearing on whether I should waste my breath.

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