Icarus

With a nod to the anthropic principle, I'd like to start a new theistic thought experiment. Hopefully it's not old hat.

Cosmology changes almost as quickly as Texas weather, so if the vision I present isn't all you dream of as you lie awake at night, I beg you to humor me, patronize me, but dear god don't abuse me! As I have no further disclaimers, let's play make believe for awhile.

Pretend for a moment that god does not exist, that a closed universe is about to be reborn for the nth time, and that you have prime seating from which to view all the action.

As history unfolds, you observe the following events in time-lapse:

• At a given point in imaginary time, a universe inflates from singularity in real time;
• gases converge, galaxies take shape, stars ignite, and planetary systems form throughout the cosmos;
• life emerges in a handful of systems, followed by intelligence, and eventually advanced civilization;
• the various planetary civilizations thrive and fail in isolation, failing to intersect with each other;
• the universe slows, stops, and reverses its expansion, destroying all remaining life in cataclysmic fury;
• singularity is reached in real time.

This thought experiment involves two simple questions:

A. How many (what % of) planetary civilizations developed a variation of theism?

B. Assuming 'A.' is greater than 0%, how did they defend it?

Icarus

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: Icarus ]</p>

rainbow walking

Hi Icarus,
Gloomy prediction.

(A.) 100%

(b.) They couldn't, that's why they failed to connect with one another. They wasted their entire existence as a species in endless wars and strife over their respective beliefs and the splintering that accompanies a mind divorced from reality.

KarlTennessen

Well, this isn't REALLY important, but your timeline sould diverge, seeing as we dont know whether or not there is enough dark matter to keep the universe oss-sill-ate-ing (thats phoenetic, I dont know how to spell).

There should be another possible 6th and 7th bullet, reading:


-The universe continues to expand, and disorder of energy (entropy) increases, order decreases, so life, however intelligent, can no longer support itself.

-The univerde becomes a roughly homogenous soup, devoid of order for eternity, in both real and imaginary time.

Icarus

RW,

It has been many moons since our last, brief exchange. I believe we were both theists, even Christians, at that time (Nov `00). I'm happy to say we've both moved on since then. Thanks for responding to what is otherwise a barren wasteland of a post.

Since I'm not expecting further activity here, I'll simply disclose my own feelings about this scenario I constructed. To me, it seems obvious that no matter how much life may exist in the universe, that no matter how much time the universe may have to produce it, and that no matter how many universes exist, there will always be individuals who, because of their isolation from the multiplicity of life and their infintesimal life spans, develop an emotional attachment to the belief that intelligent life--or life itself, for that matter--cannot exist by chance. It takes a greater perspective than any human existentially comprehends to appreciate how easy it would be for life or something like it to emerge in infinite space and time. Most of us accept this factually; far fewer accept it viscerally. Instead a majority of people seem to regard human intelligence as special, a divine creation, the result of what is othewise an extremely improbable series of events. It is improbable, that is why it is so rare. But the antrhopic principle indicates that even the most remote possibility becomes probable within the scope of cosmological size and time. Unfortunately, these colossal values are not a part of human experience, so most find it difficult to accept. I also believe that it would be difficult for any species in a situation like ours to do so.

And I think you are right. It saddens me, but it may be true. I wonder how far the human race makes it in the end, when it can neither prove nor dispose of its narrow-minded devotion to the gods of teleology. Perhaps we will overcome the fear someday and discover the life out there waiting for us in the darkness.

thanks,

Icarus

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: Icarus ]</p>

Icarus

KT,

I'm fully aware that the universe may not oscillate, that the matter and enery currently detectable by science accounts for lests than 10% of what would be necessary to reverse the current expansion, and that heat death may eventually prove T. S. Elliot correct. I simply chose one timeline as to not complicate the scenario for no practical reason, viz., the experiment is similar when using and open or closed model.

Thanks for the input,

Icarus

Ryanfire

It's quite lonely to exist on a pale blue dot, not knowing what is out there.

I'm sure all civilizations would develop the same sense of fear. But who's to say they would have the feeling of fear? Perhaps they would experience something similar to it. Others might not fear and have been travelling the stars for billions of years.

Since god has no intention of showing himself, we must find other intelligent life elsewhere, or forever be alone.

In Religion, death has been mans only salvation from his fear.

In naturalism, death has been mans only limit to understanding.

Solve death, and you will forever change what it means to be human. You will see radical changes to religion and naturalism.

With stemcells, nanotechnology, engineering, and science, the above possiblities are close to becoming a reality.

I just hope the concept of god does not stop humanity from achieving all their goals and dreams.

This website seems to be of great help to many out there.