Vorkosigan

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/2002/4/024jph.html" target="_blank">It's here...</a>

Steven Carr

Robert (No Link) Turkel is the guy who is convinced that Paul had no conscience, because it hadn't been invented yet.

<a href="http://www.tektonics.org/tillstill7-5.html" target="_blank">http://www.tektonics.org/tillstill7-5.html</a>

But his knowledge of the Bible is hardly better than the knowledge of demographics of his gullible readers 'A majority of the world is Chinese.'.

I had written an article with
' <a href="http://exposed.faithweb.com/blunder.html" target="_blank">http://exposed.faithweb.com/blunder.html</a> is a most interesting article showing that , although Turkel considers himself a greater scholar in Greek than the people who translated the NIV, he actually cannot even count how many times a Greek word appears in a sentence.'


Turkel when 'quoting' my article replaced my link to an article exposing his blunders to an article on his site.

He has now put the link back (although it is not an active link) and written
'Note to Till fans: Lately Stevie accuses me of editing out the link above. No, I didn't -- I copied and pasted directly from what Stevie wrote, and the brackets around it made it "disappear" from the browser text; it was still in the HTML.'


<a href="http://theskepticalreview.com/cgi-bin/ceilidh.exe/abi/?C3c3f3700bKIi-4664-187-90.htm" target="_blank">http://theskepticalreview.com/cgi-bin/ceilidh.exe/abi/?C3c3f3700bKIi-4664-187-90.htm</a>

What brackets were around this link?

Turkel is a lying bastard. He altered the link (cut and pasted directly - hardly), and when I called him on it, he altered it back and says I wrongly accused him. He is a liar for Christ (and money - he likes people to send him money)

<a href="http://theskepticalreview.com/cgi-bin/ceilidh.exe/abi/?C3c3f3700bKIi-4678-377+5a.htm" target="_blank">http://theskepticalreview.com/cgi-bin/ceilidh.exe/abi/?C3c3f3700bKIi-4678-377+5a.htm</a>

As can be seen, I documented his editing of my article to remove the link on 22nd October, while he has altered the article many times since 1st November.

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Carr ]

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Carr ]</p>

Steven Carr

Robert (No Link) Turkel continues 'Same with the note on tillstill7-5 just above. I have now removed the brackets around both.'

Robert (No Link) Turkel admits he has changed his article, and edited the link I gave. Does anybody believe Robert (No Link) Turkel left in the link? (The answer is in the question)

What a liar!

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Carr ]</p>

MrKrinkles

Steve,

Thanks for the info.

What a sad display of dishonesty and hypocrisy. Turkel constantly portrays himself as an apostle of truth while he attacks skeptics as cynical liars. It is all just projection. Look at what he writes here:

<a href="http://www.tektonics.org/glennall02.html" target="_blank">http://www.tektonics.org/glennall02.html</a>

I think Turkel should take a good look at himself the mirror.

This is something I will have to add to my <a href="http://members.aol.com/bbu85/hold.htm" target="_blank">Turkel page</a>.

Brooks

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: MrKrinkles ]</p>

Layman

Did you really need to publish the man's home address and telephone number on a site filled with people very hostile to Holding?

Couldn't he be demonized without that particular excess?

galiel

I completely agree. It is utterly reprehensible, not to mention irresponsible (there ARE wacko's out there).

[ December 06, 2002: Self moderated by: galiel ]

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: galiel ]</p>

Vorkosigan

I can understand your concerns, Layman and Galiel, but Holding's phone number and address are already public. See the phone book.

The article is published on a website at Infidels. I simply alerted the forum to it.

Finally, as we know from long experience, it is not atheists who harass Christians with hate mail, death threats, and phone calls in the night. It's invariably the other way around. You're the ones filled with hate and intolerance, not us.

Vorkosigan

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: Vorkosigan ]</p>

galiel

Interesting comment, Vork, considering that I am an atheist.

A person who uses a pseudonym to write can't be looked up in the phone book unless you expose his or her true identity. And a person who not only uses a pseudonym to write but explains that he or she does so because of legitimate fear of violence, probably doesn't want to make it any easier for the people they fear.

It is neither theists nor theists specifically who harras and assault people. It is sickos, and they come in every shape, size, color and conviction.

But why think when one can merely jerk one's knee? And why respect someone who is "the enemy"?

Clearly, you agree with the exposer, who is just as clearly an "ends justify the means" immoral kind of person. Precisely the kind of stand-up atheist we want to hold up as a shining example of godless morality.

WinAce

Ah yes, good old J.P. Holding. This was my favorite part of his entire 'rebuttal':

He's also found his way into my stupid quotes collection by posting at a forum I frequent. Specifically:

Vorkosigan

Interesting comment, Vork, considering that I am an atheist.

Interesting comment, considering that I was addressing Layman with that one.

A person who uses a pseudonym to write can't be looked up in the phone book unless you expose his or her true identity.

That identity has been long known. Turkel himself told Till what his real name is. And you can search the net and quickly find it. Once you have that and a state of residence, the rest is easy. That is why, though I was not comfortable with the phone thing either (as I implied above), I didn't consider it a serious issue. That, and of course, the well-known fact that atheists rarely conduct campaigns of harassment against non-atheists.

And a person who not only uses a pseudonym to write but explains that he or she does so because of legitimate fear of violence, probably doesn't want to make it any easier for the people they fear.

As Till demonstrates, that person cannot fear violence, because he is no longer in that system. Further, he was not at a prison for violent felons, but a minimum security playpen. In any case, as Till himself pointed out "After all, whoever heard of a Christian in this country posing a threat to his safety by writing pro-Biblical articles?"

It is neither theists nor theists specifically who harras and assault people. It is sickos, and they come in every shape, size, color and conviction.

Christianity's production rate of "sickos" is a lot higher, Gal. Is it atheists who beat up gays outside of gay bars? Does Bishop Spong get death threats from atheists? Is it atheists who hunt down abortion doctors? When Christians bring school prayer cases, is it atheists who make death threats, harass them, and in at least one case, burn their house down? Have atheists formed a political party in the US advocating slavery and murder of adulterers? Who has reported more death threats or harassment, Michael Newdow or his wife? Was it Herschel Shanks who got harassed over the James ossuary, or Rochelle Altman for exposing the possible fraud? I could go on, but I'm afraid you'd rather rant than discuss facts.

I apologize for the mix-up over your atheism. I put your name in there after I wrote the paragraph.

Vorkosigan