tdekeyser

I really am curious about your faith. (I'm not being a smart-ass either)....

You believe that a deity has created the universe? What does this deity do for you? Do you have any 'testimonies'?

Do you pray? Do they get answered?

Does he touch/talk to you?

I'm really, really curious.....

Were you always a theist or gradually adopted that view?

Thanks...

beyelzu

from all the posts that we have had, it is pretty obvious that seebs is a christian. although his seems to be almost an agnostic one. sorry, about the confusing terminology.

seebs

Hey, I like it better coming from you than from smug self-righteous people who think it means I'm going to Hell.

Yes.

Mostly, helps me see the world more clearly. He sometimes intervenes when I'm about to do something stupid.

Yes. Most of my prayers aren't the sort to which an "answer" means anything; I think my #1 most common prayer is something to the effect of "wow, that is so cool. Thanks." #2 is "Uhm, help?!".

The answers are anything from "no visible response" to amazingly precise responses. e.g., once when I was trying to decide how I felt about church, I prayed for guidance, and within two days, a local minister came by and told me that I should remember that it's not going to church, but my relationship with God, that will save me.

We *never* get door-to-door ministers here; that was the only one since the JW's came by when we moved in, and he wasn't trying to solicit donations or church memberships - he just emphasized, *several times*, that the core reason he was there was to tell me that it didn't matter what church I went to, or whether I went to church, as long as I had a relationship with God.

A friend of mine has a much better testimony; he kept finding guitar picks in his house, and he has no idea why, and he kept thinking "hey, maybe God's telling me to learn guitar", so finally, he said "I'm not sure what you're telling me. If You want me to learn guitar, get me a good hollowbody vinyl-stringed acoustic guitar with the hookup for connecting it to an amp."

About three weeks later, there were some musicians at church, and one of them came up to him and said "hey, I don't know if you play guitar or anything, but I feel like God's telling me to give you my guitar". Perfect match, including the amp hookup.

I don't get many of those; just enough to remind me.

Talk to, yes. Not sure how to describe it; it's like the mental "voice" in which I mostly experience thought, only different in some way, and very hard to pick out unless I'm being quiet. The description of a "still, small, voice" is the closest fit.

I was raised Lutheran; arguably, as a small child, I "believed in God", because I thought there was a guy in the front of the church, because there was a vaulted ceiling, and I couldn't see up there, and that's where everyone seemed to be looking. After that, no real belief; I went through confirmation classes, and found them mostly unpersuasive. (No offense to Pastor Schedtler; if he'd stayed around, I might have converted back then.) I refused to do the confirmation ritual, and the pastor we had for the second-year confirmation class tried to convince me I should do it, but I did not feel comfortaable swearing an oath I didn't mean.

I was agnostic/atheist for a long time, and specifically convinced Christianity was clearly nonsense, mostly because of the Christians. I gradually came to think there might be a God, and eventually came to be a "theist" (non-Christian), but then God gradually led me to Christianity.

I wouldn't say I "know" there is a God; I believe. I am not an inerrantist or anything of the sort - I think the Bible is primarily a human record of the history of a people reaching towards God, although I believe God had a hand in it. But, for instance, I am unbothered by the idea that there may be a false statement in the Bible, or whatever. It's a thing to give me insight; it's not God.

A lot of fundies think I don't "really" believe, because I acknowledge that I may, after all, be wrong... but I'm just a skeptic by nature. I still cannot prove that cats can't read minds, and I am sometimes quite suspicious. I'm not a "deny everything" skeptic; I'm a "keep an open mind" skeptic. I form opinions, I have beliefs, but I don't *know* them to be true, they're just what I'm going to work with until new evidence comes along. In other words, in Briggs-Meyers terms, I peg the "P" end of the P/J spectrum.

happyboy

you know, seebs.....

if there were more christians like you, the world would be a better place.

happyboy

seebs

Thanks. *blush*. This is one of the reasons I try to convert people; I think I have found a way to bring skepticism and faith together, much improving both. You know, like chocolate and peanut butter.

"Hey, you got your faith in my skepticism! Hey, you got your skepticism in my faith! Hey, these go great together!"

seebs

Depending on what "agnostic" means, I might agree. I don't believe that anyone living *knows* whether or not God exists - but then, I don't think they *know* whether the external world exists.

If you just mean "not certain", sure, I'm uncertain. God made me a skeptic. Presumably, He needed one.

pz

Much as nobody *knows* whether or not elves exist.
You sure it wasn't elves who needed a skeptic? Although, actually, you do seem to be stretching the meaning of the term "skeptic" beyond all possibility of recognition.

seebs

No, rather differently, in fact. I don't know any people who have had experiences for which they feel an explanation is necessary, and elves are the best explanation.

No, stretching it beyond recognition is insisting that skeptics think everything is false until shown otherwise.

http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/skept.htm

That's a little closer to what I think of when I talk about "skeptics". Skeptics have the same problem Christians do - the clique instinct takes over, and suddenly it's all about groupthink and sticking to the agreed position, and dogmatism towards outsiders.

I actually find this to be compelling evidence that humans evolved from other primates; we're just like 'em.

Gurdur

Come, come, come, Seebs;
as one of the most skeptical skeptics here, I am not a clique person, and you'll have to admit I am quite impartial when it comes to either flames or flirting.

beejay

Without trying to get into an argument here, can we agree that if that is your definition of having prayers answered, everybody's prayers get answered?