Infinity Lover

Are Norwegians caused by divine fondling of Ham?
Stay tuned...

Amie

<Amie gives Buffman a gentle kiss and says "sorry">

/allright I did it now give me my money Juan.

In all seriousness Buffman I understand what you are saying, however they simply skipped over me for that demographic group. I am opposed to creationism being taught in public schools.

Now I would like to answer some of these right now but I came home for a quick bite to eat and then I have to go test 2 more classes. Intensity, thank you for the remind and if I dont answer someone please feel free to PM me to remind me, I am not intentionally evading. I will have a couple hours tonight and I will respond to these questions pertaining to the flood. Rosh? how many names do you want hon? I can think of 3 offhand. Professor John Morris, PH.D he is a geological engineer, Ryan and Pitman are geologists. I'll see what kind of list I can put together for you. Yes, I like that t-shirt
Black Moses, thanks for sharing that popcorn. I WILL be back as soon as I can.
Have a lovely day
Amie~

The Lone Ranger

Radorth:

I really don't want to derail this thread, so this will be the last post I'll make on this particular topic.

Maybe I should have been clearer, but I was assuming a ship of more or less normal dimensions. Specifically, the Ark was stated to have been 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. This makes it far longer than and considerably wider than, any wooden vessel ever built. [Note that even 19th century shipwrights couldn't build wooden vessels that were in excess of 350 feet long and 60 feet wide that were at all seaworthy.]

Yes, you can build a wooden vessel as long as you want, if you make it skinny enough (it won't survive wave action, but that's not the issue). The problem is weight, which is a cubic function. If you double the dimensions of a vessel, it's weight does not double or even quadruple, it increases by a factor of eight. A vessel the size of Noah's Ark would have weighed approximately 10,000 tons, about the weight of a World War I era steel-hulled cruiser.


Only if it's skinny and isn't very tall. Water supports the vessel's weight, but doesn't make it magically disappear. The ship's structural components must still be able to withstand their own weight.

Any normally-proportioned wooden vessel more than about 100 feet long has a weight problem. The vessel's own weight causes the planking to flex, and gaps open up, even though the ship has been pitched. Vessels this size ship water just sitting in port, and vessels on the order of 200 feet long must be fitted with pumps to keep from shipping too much water. Normally-proportioned vessels on the order of 300 feet weigh so much that they must be extensively reinforced with iron or steel internal braces, because wood simply isn't strong enough.

Nineteenth-century naval engineers concluded that any normally-proportioned wooden vessel more than 400 feet in lenght would collapse under its own weight before it could even be launched. The few attempts made to build vessels of this size bore out the predictions.

But there is a limit to how long and wide and tall a house can be. Especially if you're building with wood.

Good day,

Michael

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: The Lone Ranger ]</p>

Infinity Lover

These guys don't just hand around popcorn, they butter it too.

Buffman

amie

I am opposed to creationism being taught in public schools.

Thank you. That's what I wished to know. Obviously your offer to defend the "biblical" Noah story did place your particular brand of Christianity in question.

When I received my undergraduate degree in Biology, almost all my professors professed a belief in Christianity as a moral guidance system. However, none believed that the Bible was inerrant. None believed that Genesis was literal, scientific, fact.

Today, we have a small group of highly credentialed acientists attempting to promote Intelligent Design as a co-equal scientific theory with Evolution. In my opinion, this is little more than Creationism in George Bush clothing. The ICR has had its own small group of highly credentialed scientists attempting to validate Genesis. That is not how the Scientific Method works. Yet politicians, catering to their own vested interest concerns, have been giving these Creationist/ID scientists legislative weight far beyond that to which they are entitled or have earned via the scientific method of knowing.---Thus, I hope you can appreciate my initial cautions to you about entering into a defense of a biblical story claiming to have a scientific education in biology as the essential qualification for holding whatever faith beliefs that you do. In central Florida, you can not be a "true" Christian and believe in Evolution. IMHO, that is the most "ludicrous" claim...even though possibly the most, faith belief, honest one.

Now back to 'Intensity's' excellent list of issues awaiting your comment. (You might wish to finish the Pop-Korn before you respond. If I knew who 'Juan' was, I might ask how much was paid.)

Tristan Scott

Maybe people in Noah's time had very short forearms, like maybe only 8 inches or so. That would have made the ark only about 300 feet.

Infinity Lover

Maybe the ark was like the Tardis (from Dr. Who) and the Bible only mentions inside dimensions.
(hey; comic relief, or test of patience... All is valuable as long as you apply the proper perspective )

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: Infinity Lover ]</p>

ps418

Too funny! Grown people that believe in Noah's Flood. This would be a good time to plug my website, <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/" target="_blank">Creation Science and Earth History</a>, wherein Flood 'geology' is scrutinized, analyzed, sliced, diced, and refuted many times over. For this discussion, I especially recommend my articles on <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/eggs.htm" target="_blank">dino eggs and the flood, </a> <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/forests.htm" target="_blank">fossil forests and the flood, </a><a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/ff.htm" target="_blank">autochthonous benthic fossils and the flood, </a> and <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/pweathering.htm" target="_blank">fossil soils in the geologic record. </a>

genemaster

I have two little problems with what you have said. First of all, you are misusing the word "THEORY" What you have stated is not a theory, it is an hypothesis. Secondly, your analysis of it ihas some rather glaring short-comings. Such a "vapor canopy" would block ALL, repeat ALL sun light, the same way clouds do. In addition, being exposed to raw sunlight at the top of the atmosphere, it would dissociate into hodrogen and oxygen rather rapidly and disappear into space. and again, any such vapor canopy would release a rather lot of energy in descending the minimum of fifty miles (rough top of the atmosphere) to the ground - enough energy to flash into steam. The result would be that Noah's Arc-load would wind up as stew. Typical cretinist mental mush. Could have - might have - blah blah blah. Not one of these statements bears up under even the most cursory scrutiny. "uppermost parts of Mt. Everest are composed of fossils bearing, water deposited layers" - yes indeedy. The Mt Everest marine limestones are indeed fossiliferous, and were buried under at least 3000 feet of other rock, which has subsequently been eroded off. You are talking about somehow disposing of at least 35,000 feet of water. Alternatively, you are supposing that Everest was thrust up some 29,000 ft in the course of what - 3000 years, maybe? (It depends on what data you assign this "flood") That amounts to approximately 100 feet of upthrust per year. I think we would have noticed that... it comes to a rate of 3 inches a day. Ditto for all the rest of the worlds mountains?

Anti-Creedance Front

Let me shed some light on the subject. The Enuma Elish, the Sumerian epic, almost completely mirrors the events in Genesis. Abraham (or Abram to those picky people) travelled to Judah from Ur.
It's not that difficult. Christianity has so many roots in Mesopotamian mythology it's ridiculous. Not to mention YHVH (otherwise known as EL ohim), shared his name with the Canaanite chief god. Coincidence? I think not. Nuff said.