Freethought & Rationalism Archive

elwoodblues · 04-25-2003, 11:44 AM

Ran across this concept while reading Pohl's Gateway series. Wanted to know what you all think.

Basically, numbers that crop up again and again in nature with little or no reason for doing so. .5 degrees is the angular diamater of the moon and the sun as seen from earth. If it weren't, we wouldn't have eclipses. -40 degrees is the same in celcius and fahrenheit. The fine structure constant. Lots of others, better examples that I can't think of right now.

Know any others? Think there's any significance here? Or is it just man projecting order and intention onto the universe where none exists?

Shadowy Man · 04-25-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elwoodblues
-40 degrees is the same in celcius and fahrenheit.

Well the two temperature scales are made up anyway, so realizing that two lines of different slopes cross at some point is not really a "gosh" moment.

And what is your interest in the fine structure constant?

But certainly, the Moon and the Sun being virtually the same angular scale at this point in time is quite a remarkable coincidence!

Demosthenes · 04-25-2003, 11:55 AM

It is just a sheer coincidence that the angular size of the moon is the same as the sun, but it's only going to be true in this current epoch. In about a million years, the moon'll have moved out far enough that the angular size will be smaller, not to mention the red giant phase of the sun some billions of years in the future.

About the temperature scales, it's not surprising either, there has to be at least one number which is represented the same on both scales.

As for the fine structure constant, it is indeed puzzling how finely tuned it is. But remember it's from our own perspective, from a multiverse perspective, it's not so surprising. Maybe it's the same from other theoretical viewpoints.

Abacus · 04-25-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowy Man
But certainly, the Moon and the Sun being virtually the same angular scale at this point in time is quite a remarkable coincidence!

What are the chances? God must exist!

Principia · 04-25-2003, 11:58 AM

Preliminary indications show that pi is a "normal number." What that means is that all non-negative integers of a particular length are found in pi with equal likelihood. What that implies is that you can find any encoded message you want in pi.

elwoodblues · 04-25-2003, 12:15 PM

The temp scales and angular diamater things were, IMO, bad examples. There are other ones, and the fine structure constant is the real deal. 137 I know just enough about physics to be seriously disturbed by the last equation.

Shadowy Man · 04-25-2003, 01:05 PM

elwoodblues:

Looks like numerology to me. Whiz bang!

fando · 04-25-2003, 05:47 PM

That last equation (Log_subn a = e(pi*n)) is speculation. The author seems to have pulled that out of a magic hat. What if? Well, why that particular equation first off? Is there a desire to shoehorn the fine structure constant into something like the equation e(i*pi) + 1 = 0?

ajm51987 · 04-25-2003, 07:10 PM

What about that Fibbinochi whatchamacall it sequence? Some one remember that?

Ardon28 · 04-26-2003, 05:21 AM

The fact that the Sun and the Moon have the same angular diameter, more or less, may be partly responsible for man's religious bent. It has often been theorized that belief in deities, and in a life after death, would be a positive natural selection to a prehistoric man. The "Shock and Awe" of an eclipse may have helped reinforce these beliefs.

04-25-2003, 11:44 AM	#1
elwoodblues Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dunmanifestin, Discworld Posts: 4,836	'Gosh' numbers Ran across this concept while reading Pohl's Gateway series. Wanted to know what you all think. Basically, numbers that crop up again and again in nature with little or no reason for doing so. .5 degrees is the angular diamater of the moon and the sun as seen from earth. If it weren't, we wouldn't have eclipses. -40 degrees is the same in celcius and fahrenheit. The fine structure constant. Lots of others, better examples that I can't think of right now. Know any others? Think there's any significance here? Or is it just man projecting order and intention onto the universe where none exists?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-25-2003, 11:55 AM	#3
Demosthenes Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: a speck of dirt Posts: 2,510	It is just a sheer coincidence that the angular size of the moon is the same as the sun, but it's only going to be true in this current epoch. In about a million years, the moon'll have moved out far enough that the angular size will be smaller, not to mention the red giant phase of the sun some billions of years in the future. About the temperature scales, it's not surprising either, there has to be at least one number which is represented the same on both scales. As for the fine structure constant, it is indeed puzzling how finely tuned it is. But remember it's from our own perspective, from a multiverse perspective, it's not so surprising. Maybe it's the same from other theoretical viewpoints.

04-25-2003, 11:58 AM	#5
Principia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: anywhere Posts: 1,976	Preliminary indications show that pi is a "normal number." What that means is that all non-negative integers of a particular length are found in pi with equal likelihood. What that implies is that you can find any encoded message you want in pi.

04-25-2003, 12:15 PM	#6
elwoodblues Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dunmanifestin, Discworld Posts: 4,836	The temp scales and angular diamater things were, IMO, bad examples. There are other ones, and the fine structure constant is the real deal. 137 I know just enough about physics to be seriously disturbed by the last equation.

04-25-2003, 01:05 PM	#7
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	elwoodblues: Looks like numerology to me. Whiz bang!

04-25-2003, 05:47 PM	#8
fando Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 1,372	That last equation (Log_subn a = e(pin)) is speculation. The author seems to have pulled that out of a magic hat. What if? Well, why that particular equation first off? Is there a desire to shoehorn the fine structure constant into something like the equation e(ipi) + 1 = 0?

04-25-2003, 07:10 PM	#9
ajm51987 Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seattle, USA Posts: 245	What about that Fibbinochi whatchamacall it sequence? Some one remember that?

04-26-2003, 05:21 AM	#10
Ardon28 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hummelstown,PA Posts: 17	The fact that the Sun and the Moon have the same angular diameter, more or less, may be partly responsible for man's religious bent. It has often been theorized that belief in deities, and in a life after death, would be a positive natural selection to a prehistoric man. The "Shock and Awe" of an eclipse may have helped reinforce these beliefs.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.