Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lcb · 07-25-2002, 05:19 PM

hope i am not misunderstood. i am from a debate background and in debate you are given a side to argue, ya know resolved:so and so....the fastest way to cut to the chase is challenge the opposite side's strongest or weakest arguments. I read Josh McDowell's stuff and then Jury in Need of Dismissal and all the rebuttals and Scaling the Secular City, etc and its rebuttals, and I have started to read Callahan's book on prophecy that toto recc'd, etc. The reason i tossed out the israel restoration prophecies was that it seemed to me that that was the weakest rebuttal to McDowell and thus it seemed to me the strongest position for that side. I read the order of battle and after action accounts of the '48,'67 and '73 wars and the "rebuttals" to them by the skeptic side etc. Apologize if i offended anyone by my style-it probably does seem a bit baiting...I havent made my mind up is what i am trying to say however unartfully i say it-i am a history major not a writer.thus far i am troubled most by the prophecies concerning the restoration of isreal and i realize that western christians lobbied for the creation of the jewish state, but the '48 and '67 secular military reports have begun to lead me to the conclusion that the christian position here may be stronger(for the time being)this isnt a flame or a preconceived position either-it is entirely malleable.hope i am making some sense.

lcb · 07-25-2002, 06:28 PM

p.s. excellent website

CX · 07-25-2002, 08:49 PM

I come somewhat late to the dance lcb, but welcome. Pleasantries aside, and I apologize if you've already covered this, but what in the Bible do you regard as in anyway connected with the establishment of an Israelite state in '48 and the subsequent wars?

Toto · 07-25-2002, 09:58 PM

lcb - I guess it's hard for any of us here to take the "prophecy" business seriously, so the assumption was that you had a hidden agenda. If you've ever met any Jehovah's Witnesses, one of their lines is all of the prophecies in the Bible that were fulfilled.

And the website you gave was not a good example of critical thinking. It claimed 100 prophesies, but many were different aspects of the same thing. Many were instances where most historians assume that the prophecy was written well after the event happened, as with Jesus prophesying the destruction of the Temple.

I would encourage you to read more widely about the tricks of prophecy. There is an art to taking what happened, and searching through the Bible, or Nostradamus, or whatever oracle you fancy, and finding something that you can label a prophesy. The real test is to ask for a prophesy now of what will happen in the future, and wait to see if it happens. The Bible prophets almost always fail those tests. (Remember Y2K?)

Dark Jedi · 07-26-2002, 08:44 AM

Hi,

Some advice on posting, not directed at you as a reprimand or anything of the sort, everyone learns these tips over time: BBS forums do not format well. here are some ways to break it up in to an easier to read format.

When writing a long paragraph on a BBS, hit enter after a sentance. This breaks it up in to a more readable format.

Between paragraphs, enter twice. This also seperates them in to an easier to read format.

Also, if you haven't done so, Introduce yourself in the "Welcome" forum.
And Welcome to the board!<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">Forum link</a>

07-25-2002, 05:19 PM	#1
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	new to the board hope i am not misunderstood. i am from a debate background and in debate you are given a side to argue, ya know resolved:so and so....the fastest way to cut to the chase is challenge the opposite side's strongest or weakest arguments. I read Josh McDowell's stuff and then Jury in Need of Dismissal and all the rebuttals and Scaling the Secular City, etc and its rebuttals, and I have started to read Callahan's book on prophecy that toto recc'd, etc. The reason i tossed out the israel restoration prophecies was that it seemed to me that that was the weakest rebuttal to McDowell and thus it seemed to me the strongest position for that side. I read the order of battle and after action accounts of the '48,'67 and '73 wars and the "rebuttals" to them by the skeptic side etc. Apologize if i offended anyone by my style-it probably does seem a bit baiting...I havent made my mind up is what i am trying to say however unartfully i say it-i am a history major not a writer.thus far i am troubled most by the prophecies concerning the restoration of isreal and i realize that western christians lobbied for the creation of the jewish state, but the '48 and '67 secular military reports have begun to lead me to the conclusion that the christian position here may be stronger(for the time being)this isnt a flame or a preconceived position either-it is entirely malleable.hope i am making some sense.

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07-25-2002, 06:28 PM	#2
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	p.s. excellent website

07-25-2002, 08:49 PM	#3
CX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portlandish Posts: 2,829	I come somewhat late to the dance lcb, but welcome. Pleasantries aside, and I apologize if you've already covered this, but what in the Bible do you regard as in anyway connected with the establishment of an Israelite state in '48 and the subsequent wars?

07-25-2002, 09:58 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	lcb - I guess it's hard for any of us here to take the "prophecy" business seriously, so the assumption was that you had a hidden agenda. If you've ever met any Jehovah's Witnesses, one of their lines is all of the prophecies in the Bible that were fulfilled. And the website you gave was not a good example of critical thinking. It claimed 100 prophesies, but many were different aspects of the same thing. Many were instances where most historians assume that the prophecy was written well after the event happened, as with Jesus prophesying the destruction of the Temple. I would encourage you to read more widely about the tricks of prophecy. There is an art to taking what happened, and searching through the Bible, or Nostradamus, or whatever oracle you fancy, and finding something that you can label a prophesy. The real test is to ask for a prophesy now of what will happen in the future, and wait to see if it happens. The Bible prophets almost always fail those tests. (Remember Y2K?)

07-26-2002, 08:44 AM	#5
Dark Jedi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 4,666	Hi, Some advice on posting, not directed at you as a reprimand or anything of the sort, everyone learns these tips over time: BBS forums do not format well. here are some ways to break it up in to an easier to read format. When writing a long paragraph on a BBS, hit enter after a sentance. This breaks it up in to a more readable format. Between paragraphs, enter twice. This also seperates them in to an easier to read format. Also, if you haven't done so, Introduce yourself in the "Welcome" forum. And Welcome to the board!<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">Forum link</a>

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