rfwu

I was reading the Wizard of Id on the sunday comics today, and it has one character saying that he couldn't find the phrase "separation of church and state" anywhere in the Constitution. The lawyer nearby says that it's because it doesn't exist. I don't get it, but it scares me. Does this guy thing we're stupid? It's in the Bill of Rights, not the Constitution! What do you think?

I know that this could be in the popular culture section, but the separation thing really ticks me off.

Toto

Uh - the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution.

The Wizard of Id is written by Brant Parker and Johnny Hart. Johnny Hart is a born-again Christian who works Christian themes into his B.C. comic.

That comic is not online yet, but I have been told that in the punch line the lawyer asks if you want the king to be running your church, which sounds like the dawning of appreciation of church state separation.

dirkduck

Well the actual phrase isn't in the constitution, I believe it was from a letter by Thomas Jefferson. But the Establishment Clause (pretty much "The government wont promote a religion, or restrict the exercise of any") is right in there.

Jewel

IIRC, James Madison also used the phrase to describe what the First Amendment meant.

Oresta

The phrase first appears n 1802 in Jefferson's wrote letter to the Danbury, CT, Baptists. President Jefferson was responding to a complaint that Danbury citizens, regardless of religion, were required to pay taxes to support the Congregational Church. He refers to the Esrablishment Clause as "building a wall if seaparation between church and state".

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html

I have encountered simpletons who parrot the fact that the phrase isn't in the Constitution without a clue as to its origins or -- more importantly -- the rationale for it. There were, at the time, still vestiges of colonial theocracies in New England. Adams's home town, Braintree, Massachusetts, was still levying a church tax at this time as well.

Arken

Well maybe there is no separation of Church and State in the Kingdom of Id. After all, the King is a fink.

GaryP

Of course, the "Holy Trinity" isn't in the Bible either.

beejay

I think the following link will let you get to the comic (select 7/13 date)

Wizard of Id comics for last 30 days

With the punchline, it certainly seems that it supports the separation of church and state, even though that phrase is not in the Constitution.

lowmagnet

I think you all need to read that again. The only thing the lawyer didn't like was the king messing around in the church. That says nothing for the opposite side of the argument.

beejay

Some people support the separation because they don't want the church running the government; others don't want the government running the church.

I think the comic points out to the religious that there is a benefit to them in the separation.

But maybe I'm too optimistic...