RED DAVE

From Loren Pechtel:

What the market WILL DO is what the market ALWAYS DOES: ignore the problem until it is confronted by passionate, committed people.

The faith that libertarians and others have in the market solving social problems is, to me, the functional equivalent of a fundie believing in Jesus: faith, resting on air.

The history of "the market" with regard to racism is appalling. It took a bloody civil war and a civil rights movement to correct what "the market" wouldn't correct. Anyone counseling African Americans to wait for the market to bring them justice "As time goes on" is acceding to racism and saying that the masters of the market: President Georgie Porgie, the Lords of Enron, etc., are going to bring racial justice.

Yeah, right.

[Edit: I came upon the following in another thread.]

Racism and Politics

RED DAVE

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by RED DAVE
From Loren Pechtel:

What the market WILL DO is what the market ALWAYS DOES: ignore the problem until it is confronted by passionate, committed people.

No. The market simply doesn't change as fast as activists would like it to. They make a big stink, probably speeding things up a bit, and then take credit for the change, saying it wouldn't have happened without them.

The history of "the market" with regard to racism is appalling. It took a bloody civil war and a civil rights movement to correct what "the market" wouldn't correct.

The market is unable to correct something coded into law like slavery. The market only moves things by a series of little steps. If there is no little step (as there is no little step to abolishing slavery) then the market won't accomplish it.

Anyone counseling African Americans to wait for the market to bring them justice "As time goes on" is acceding to racism and saying that the masters of the market: President Georgie Porgie, the Lords of Enron, etc., are going to bring racial justice.

The market isn't in the business of bringing justice. However, in the long run the market punishes inefficiency. Racism is inefficient. Therefore in the long run the market will wipe out racism.

RED DAVE

Let's remember that the title of the thread is "Members of ethnic minorities should be libertarian"

So, the following from Loren Pechtel:

What I constantly note, in this reply and in other lib replies about racism is the extraordinary COMPLACENCY that is displayed. To wit: "The market simply doesn't change as fast as activists would like it to." Now, what we are talking about was slavery, then mass terrorism, then organized segregation and discrimination, and now, sub rosa discrimination. Members of discriminated groups must wait, I guess, until the ever-mysterious forces of the market finally move their way (or Jesus returns, whichever comes first).

If the market can't remove racism, why should minorities be libs and bow down before it?

"The market isn't in the business of bringing justice." Amen to that. And how long will the run be? The market and its intendant forces took 350 years to overthrow slavery, and, in Loren's own words: "The market is unable to correct something coded into law like slavery. The market only moves things by a series of little steps." And if the market couldn't overthrow slavery, terrorism, segregation or discrimination, why should anyone think it will deal with the current racist shit?

Some peope, just love capitalism and its ruling class.

RED DAVE

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by RED DAVE
What I constantly note, in this reply and in other lib replies about racism is the extraordinary COMPLACENCY that is displayed. To wit: "The market simply doesn't change as fast as activists would like it to." Now, what we are talking about was slavery,

And I've already pointed out the market can't do anything about slavery!

Members of discriminated groups must wait, I guess, until the ever-mysterious forces of the market finally move their way (or Jesus returns, whichever comes first).

Got a better solution? Don't say AA--it's basically guaranteed to perpetuate the problem. Think if it like morphine. If you're in severe pain the doctor might very well give you morphine. However, as you heal he's not going to keep on doing it--morphine has it's own problems. I see AA the same way.

"The market isn't in the business of bringing justice." Amen to that. And how long will the run be? The market and its intendant forces took 350 years to overthrow slavery,

The market never overthrew slavery.

and, in Loren's own words: "The market is unable to correct something coded into law like slavery. The market only moves things by a series of little steps." And if the market couldn't overthrow slavery, terrorism, segregation or discrimination, why should anyone think it will deal with the current racist shit?

You're not making sense here. I said that market forces can't make a leap like removing slavery. I never said they couldn't make the lesser later steps. I think AA was a good thing--it speeded up the change. However, I think it's done all it can, all we are left with is the harm, little if any benefit

RED DAVE

This thread is getting as boring as shit. Two points are obvious:

1) Libertarians have no solution to the problem of racism and have had no solutions in the past.

2) Since racism persists in this country, there is no reason at all for members of minority groups to adopt the libertarian ideology.

RED DAVE