meritocrat

Classical liberalism is in part dedicated to lessening racial discrimination and the upholding of ALL people's rights in society, irrespective of what race or colour they are.

In that sense, more members of the ethnic minorities should seek to find out more out libertarianism.

RED DAVE

Don't be silly. Libertarianism, by accepting, promoting and making obeisance to capitalism, actually SUPPORTS racism. Show me one concrete proposal that libs have come up with to help fight racism.

Eliminating affirmative action is not fighting racism.

RED DAVE

Gurdur

States' Rights.

oooooops.

AtomSmasher

What does capitalism have to do with racism? Capitalism is simply a set of rules by which people can fairly exchange goods and services.

RED DAVE

From AtomSmasher:

Dude, are we going to get into this one again? Capitalism is a historically conditioned economic system (didn't exist at one time; won't exist some time in the future). It was established in various countries at various times starting approximately 500 years ago.

Simultaneous with and key to the origins and continuation of capitalism until 150 years ago was the institution of slavery, practiced mainly against enslaved Africans and their descendants. The primary ideology that justified this enslavement and murder of millions of human beings was RACISM!

Racism, in the form of the discrimination and disabilities that African-Americans still suffer under, is still virulent.

Ergo, racism is an inescapable part of the intellectual-emotional baggage of capitalism as it existed and exists in the world as opposed to some pure set of ideals in the minds of libertarians (which reifies racism in any event).

RED DAVE

Loren Pechtel

You're assuming racism must be fought! I don't see much need of fighting it anymore--the battle is basically won.

Acinom

fairly? please...

If I ever moved to Texas and it was a libertarian state (which would never happen), the only goods and services I'll be able to exchange is the entertainment of seeing me being hung by rednecks.

From what I know of libertarianism, minorities like me should avoid it as much as we avoid the GOP.

Acinom

I hope you're joking.

AtomSmasher

You've never been "into this one" with me before, so yes.

Capitalism was never "established" it evolved from mercantilism which was first practiced by the Romans and Arab merchants who simply bought goods in one area and moved them to another area and sold them for a profit. This system of trade was mutually beneficial for all parties involved and it gradually evolved into a system of economic rules that are today known as capitalism.

Slavery has nothing to do with capitalism. There may have been capitalists that used it, but it is by no means "Simultaneous with and key to the origins and continuation of capitalism". Slavery has existed in every culture whether or not they practice capitalist economics.

"Intellectual-emotional baggage of capitalism?" Perhaps the murder of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS by communist and socialist states constitutes intellectual-emotional bus-loads then?

RED DAVE

AtomSmasher:

A series of loud yelps on your part are not a substitute for reasoned discourse.

I don't know where you got the idea that mercantilism was "first practiced by the Romans and Arab merchants." Mercantilism was an early form of capitalism (replaced by industrialism, colonialism, imperialism, etc.). While the Romans and Arabs (and many other peoples, including the Egyptians prior to 2000 BCE) practiced foreign trade, mercantilism as the predominant mode of production and exchange is historically conditioned, as is capitalism itself. Mercantilism began ca. 1500 and ended ca. 1700 (my estimate).

Slavery has existed in virtually every culture. But it had more-or-less died out in Europe during feudalism (replaced, by and large but not entirely by serfdom). However, with the commencement of the trade with Africa and the "discovery" of the New World, slavery was revived with a vengeance and continued with a vengeance for over 350 years. The forced extraction of surplus value from millions of (unpaid) slaves was crucial to mercantilist and early industrial capitalism. (The US Civil War was an internal conflict between two modes of capitalism: slavery and industrialism, which could not coexist.)

That is intellectually dishonest. We are not discussing communism or socialism, we are discussing capitalism. I reiterate racism has been and is now an integral part of capitalism, there from the beginning and present now.

RED DAVE