Zentraedi

Thats pretty vague, what are you talking about? That sounds like random gibberish.

-RRH-

Well, that just goes to show why it was illegal, right? Can't have people genetically engineered if it makes people be all crazy!


I think TOS was pretty progressive for its time, but now I think it's pretty much under the sway of popular opinion. So it's not really Gene's view of G.E. it's just reflecting back the view of the public-at-large.

If I were to have my own science fiction show, I would try to push the fringes of public belief. One of the potentials of science fiction is that you can remove things from their familiar contexts so people see them from a new perspective.

beoba

I've heard that Uhuru (sp?) was the first black woman on TV who wasnt in a position like, say, a maid.

Friar Bellows

Well, unfortunately for Trekkie fans, that's a myth. For example, the CBS TV series, "East Side/West Side" (1963) starred a black woman, Cicely Tyson (and no, she wasn't a maid or anything like that). The show occasionally focused on the lives of black people in America, and when it did, some Southern affiliates (e.g. Atlanta) refused to air it. Ultimately, the show was too mature for American audiences in general, and was axed after 26 episodes.

But there's no doubt that Star Trek (the original series) broke new ground on mainstream US TV. My main beef is with the newer series, Star Trek: TNG. Where I perceive racist undertones is in its depiction of alien races. It's virtually the same one-dimensional, stereotypical, deterministic crap you get from real-world racists. But, in my opinion, Star Trek has never been a high quality show, so perhaps I shouldn't hold it up to such a high standard.

Wyz_sub10

Could you elaborate on these racial undertones?

Friar Bellows

There's not much to add beyond my first and last post in this thread. The message of ST:TNG is this: if you are a ______ (insert name of alien race) then you are ______ (insert behavioural and social characteristics e.g. greedy, violent). Race determines behaviour and culture. Except, of course, if you're human. The human race is wonderfully diverse: lots of different cultures, and everyone is unique. This reminds me of white European attitudes towards the "savages" or the "slaves". I don't think the writers started out intentionally to insert racist undertones in their work, but they certainly haven't done much to remove them. I suppose it's easier to do nothing about it.

Wyz_sub10

I can't say I agree. I mentioned this is an earlier post, but many espisodes are dedicated to finding out that "______" does *not* equal "_______". There have been excellent episodes with Worf struggling between his conscience and tradition. There have been similar episodes with Romulans and even Borg.

As for humans, there are many episodes casting unfavourable light on humans.

You cannot completely remove the concept of cultures that behave in a certain way at the macro level. IRL, you can look at how the US holds capitalism as a kind of virture, or the loyalty of employees in Japanese society. Of course many go against the grain, but having these broad traits help define the different races in ST in a way that makes telling an elaborate story possible. You won't very well care about the politics involved in the series if everyone is all over the board.

Do you think LOTR is racist in the same way?

Friar Bellows

I'm quite familiar with cultural characteristics. What I also know is this: humans have many different cultures, and each culture has a lot more than just one single characteristic.

LOTR = Lord of the Rings, right? I read that book when I was a kid, about 20 years ago! Can't remember much about it. Sorry.

Wyz_sub10

Yes, but...

1. In the ST "reality" humans have amalgamated into a larger society, as has happened on other planets. That's part of the point.

2. The races in Star Trek have more than one dimension. Just because some traits are socially dominant doesn't mean others don't exist.

3. You need to have some tangible differences at the base level in order to provide conflict.

It sounds as though you are suggesting that all sentient beings everywhere should be similiar in their diversities.

If you were writting a story that took place in the US in the 1830s, you would likely include slavery in the story. You would also likely have a few people in your story who opposed slavery.

The reader of your story would infer that most people supported slavery and a few people opposed it in the south. That would probably be a realistic assumption. Would that make the story racist?

Apparently they made a movie or two about it.

Friar Bellows

No, not at all. I'm merely suggesting that there should be diversity. I don't see much diversity in Klingons, or Ferengi, or Romulans. I see a lot of it in Humans, though.

This comment smells of sarcasm. Like I should have watched this movie or something. Sorry, but fantasy movies is something I left behind in my adolescence. Eventually, I stopped watching what marketing companies told me I should watch, and discovered a whole new world of cinema, mostly independent, and almost totally ignored by the mainstream. It's kept me busy ever since.